CAN IT GO AWAY BY ITSELF??

[ballen]

I was recently diagnosed with C Diff, and apparently had it for 4 months without knowing it. Back last fall I had had two courses of antibiotics, one for an abscessed tooth the other for an upper-resp infection. I had on and off loose, thin stools and some gas, only in the morning, and didn't think too much about it. My DH just laughed and said I had "old lady" guts. At my last checkup I mentioned it to my MD, figuring maybe I was getting IBS, or lactose or gluten issues, and lo and behold I was pos for C Diff. I'd never even heard of it!

Ten days ago, I just finished 12 days of Flagyl. It tasted horrible, it made mt stomach upset, and made me burp constantly. The last day was the worst, it crashed my system and I could hardly eat anything without bloating out like a puffer-fish from gas. Now I'm back to the usual soft, thin stools and occasional gas in the mornings. I'm scheduled to take a sample in tomorrow to see if it's gone, but I'm doubting it is.

My question is, if the infection is not (apparently) "severe", has it been known to occasionally & eventually cure itself through just time, probiotics, diet, exercise, etc... Or, will it never get better and cause permanent damage to my intestines even with few symptoms? I know the MD would call for Vanco next, and I don't think I'm ready to crash my system again.

Also, I've been reading up on the stool "transplant" method. If you can find someone to do it, do you have to take a full course of antibiotics first?

Thanks so much!

[Kathy George]

Everyone is different when it comes to C-Diff; Symptoms and treatments fluctuate for each individual. It’s not unheard of to alleviate C-Diff symptoms with probiotics. However, 20 to 30% of individuals suffer from recurrent C-Diff that needs to be treated aggressively. I suffered for 4 months with constant diarrhea. I had 5 relapses within this time-frame and was on many different therapy treatments until the final treatment was successful. Some individuals that are tested postive for C-Diff are simply carriers of this disease and have none and/or limited symptoms of C-Diff. Most doctors in my geographic area would not treat these limited symptoms. The medication (Flagyl) that you were on has many side effects. It doesn’t surprise me that your stomach was upset. As far as another stool culture, I was told to wait 14 days for a retest. I would be hesitant to take additional medication at the present time, as your present symptoms represent a typical recovery. This may be your new norm for a period of time. As your system adjusts your overall system should improve. Good luck to you and keep us posted!!!!

[beth22]

Standard Introduction: Welcome to the site. Read the first forum ALL USERS READ THIS FIRST & its subtopics, especially the announcements: PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST and GUIDELINES FOR POSTING TO OUR DISCUSSION BOARDS. They will guide you in using the site & answer some of the most frequent questions you might have. Read Dr. Borody's & Dr. McDonald's articles and some of the topics in FAQ - especially Hygiene, Nutrition, & Testing.

The majority (almost 80%) recovers with one to two rounds of Flagyl or Vancocin, but an unlucky small percentage does not and can suffer for months. Everyone eventually recovers, however, unless other factors are involved such as advanced age or other severe health problems. If antibiotics contributed to your C. diff, be careful about taking them again. (See FAQ - Antibiotics). Some people can tolerate them without a problem; some develop C.diff again (See Dr. Borody's article).

Kathy has given you some good advice. I had C. diff the year before I was diagnosed and it did go into hiding on its own until I took antibiotics again. I did not know what it was at the time, but the symptoms were the same, only milder. I ate a lot of yogurt because I had not heard of probiotics then. When I was formally diagnosed a year later, I was given vancomycin to take and it messed up my digestive tract even more. In hindsight, I wish that I had not treated right away. So, unless you have a relapse, I think it is wise to give your body some time to heal, eat yogurt or kefir and continue probiotics if you have been taking them already. Your doctor can run another test if your symptoms continue. Of course, if things get much worse, then contact the doctor sooner. Good luck to you. I hope you are one of the 80% who recovers quickly.

[ballen]

Thanks so much! This website is really great. I'd never even HEARD of C Diff until a month or so ago, and it really helps to hear what other people have to say. All my doctor told me was to "wash my hands and eat yogurt". He didn't even say how it could be spread, so I was afraid I'd give it to my family just by sneezing or something! I'm a total germ-a-phobe now, and wash, wash, wash, and hit the bathroom surfaces with Chlorox. I've also learned that C Diff is included in that 0.1% that alcohol hand-sanitizers doesn't kill... Figures.

It sounds like even if my symptoms go away and I test negative, I can still harbor the bacteria and still possibly have it come back if I need to take antibiotics in the future.

I have my follow-up doctor appointment next Monday, so I will wait to take my sample in until the end of the week, giving me that 14 days.

Again, thanks so much!

[Kathy George]

All individuals that have suffered from C-Diff should be caution in regard to future anti-biotic usage. There is list of anti-biotics on this site that are considered safe as they cause the least disturbance to intestinal micro flora. I’m sure Beth can direct you to the area where it is posted. If antibiotics are completely necessary, taking probiotics along with prescribed medication is a good practice. Good luck at your doctor’s appointment!!!

[beth22]

yes, go to the CDI section, formerly known as FAQ and look under "Antibiotics that frequently cause c diff" There is a list there and you can take it and print it out and discuss with your doctor should you need future antibiotics.

[ballen]

Got the results back today, I still tested positive. But I'm feeling so much better every day, almost wouldn't know anything was wrong. I had the best BM this morning in four months.

Doc wants to put me back on Flagyl, for 7 days, 4 pills a day... I'm really annoyed and depressed, the last batch was dreadful enough. At this point I am seriously considering a home-infusion right after this next batch of Flagyl is done, so maybe I can avoid another intestinal-crash like last time and also maybe end this fiasco for good. DH already tested negative and has no symptoms or other diseases.

[beth22]

I don't understand why the doctor wants to treat you if you have no symptoms. I test positive from time to time and my doctor said he would not treat unless I got the D back. Sometimes I do get D, but only for a day or so, and he still does not treat. My ID doctor said the same. They told me to take Pepto Bismol when that happens. Maybe you should discuss your feelings about it with the doctor and see what he says.

[Mommy23]

Most good doctors only treat on symptoms, there are some on this board who continue to test positive for months after the course, but they have progress and do not require additional treatment. I'd certainly question your doctor, maybe do some research, even on this board. (someone just posted the other day about a similar situation) There are others who can be "carriers" and Never have symptoms, and never require treatment. Each time you take an abx it will kill off the good bacteria, even if it is treatment for cdiff. Most doctors know very little about the infection, I had one who told me he would always treat on positive tests, the one of have now(a leading cdiff expert)ONLY treats on symptoms alone-I trust his opinion over any other doctor!!

[ballen]

Thanks so much for your advice, which I agree with. I still have minor symptoms, mostly just softer-than-normal BMs, but each day that passes things seem to slowly but progressively get better. I already have an appt scheduled with the doc on Monday, and will wait to take the Flagyl until then. It was the only the nurse/receptionist who called today with the "news", and who told me to pick the Flagyl up at the pharmacy, and what dose to take. Just a month ago, just before I was diagnosed with this C Diff, I was seeing this doc's PA, who was WONDERFUL. Then my PA left the office to join another practice, and I had to see my actual doctor, who I had never even met before. And I DIDN'T like him. And now THIS.

As I don't believe I'm in imminent mortal danger, at least for a few days (lol), I'll see what Doc has to say Monday. If he's an idiot to me, I might just see if my PA's new doc will take me on. I've heard nothing but good about that doctor.

From what I've read here and other places, and how I feel, I'd sure like to let my body try to handle this on it's own without more Flagyl... GODS, that was bad.

Thanks again! I'll keep you posted.

[beth22]

If you are taking probiotics, then I would continue to take them until you see the doctor. If not, then try yogurt or kefir if you tolerate them. At least that will give you some good bacteria. A lot of people keep taking probiotics for a long time after finishing treatment for c diff, so it is not an unusual thing to do.

[ballen]

I've been taking prescription Bacid (Lactobacillus acidophilus) 3x a day, Florastor 2x a day, and a probiotic from CVS called "Ultimate Flora" 1x a day, since I knew I had C Diff (I'm a huge internet-researcher! lol). I took all of them even during the Flagyl regimen and am still taking all of them. Also, I've been eating tons of yogurt. Can't remember the brand, but it's an organic, cream-top brand with supposedly live cultures that comes in a quart container. Good stuff. Does any of it do any good? I don't know, but I DO know my symptoms are way improved from BEFORE I took the Flagyl... something is working, despite this last "postive" C Diff test.

I'm also looking in to getting raw goat's-milk from a family nearby, as raw-milk contains bazillions of good bacteria that are killed if they get pasteurized.

[Mommy23]

I was interested in how you found out about Bacid, I google it as well to read up a bit more. I've never heard of a probiotic needing an RX. Did you try the goats milk yet?
Hope you are feeling better

[ballen]

Hi Mommy! Actually, my old PA put me on Bacid even before I was diagnosed with C Diff. At the time we thought it was maybe IBS or gluten or something, and he thought it might help strengthen my system in general. I take it 3x a day, and he gave me enough for two months. I can't tell though if any of the probiotics are doing any good or not, though.

I ended up taking the Flagyl again after all, after experiencing for the first time a little blood in my stool. Never had that, scared me, figured I'd take the Flagyl one more time. And now, although many here do the right thing and warn against it, after this course of antibiotics I'm going to try a home-infusion with a "donation" from my DH, who has already tested negative for C Diff. I'm positive that my hospital would never consider it, and I'm not traipsing all over the western hemisphere to get such a simple procedure done. After suffering through Flagyl again, I'm going to do everything I can do to NOT have to take it again. And, If it turns out that my DH gives me tapeworms or something (lol), I'll deal with that afterwords! I'll be done with the Flagyl in two days.

Everyone wish me luck!

[beth22]

I don't think you are doing the wrong thing. The only thing I would suggest to you, is to have your husband do a stool culture, just to make sure there is no pathogen. I had stool tranfers and you don't want anything that would necessitate your taking an antibiotic afterwards. It is unlikely that your husband has parasites, and that would mean taking Flagyl or Alinia anyway, both of which are safer to take for c diff, but if he has a bacterial infection of some sort, then that is different. A culture takes about 3 days. The ova and parasites, takes less.

Do you have the protocol for doing an infusion? If not, some of us here have them. Kathy George has the most recent one from the Borody clinic and you could pm her to ask her to send it to you. I will be doing another stool transfer soon too and have not decided whether to do the home infusions or have my doctor do a colonoscopy transfer. I am leaning to the home infusions. Don't want anesthesia again nor the expense. Many people have had success with them. Now is the time to do it, as you are supposed to do it about 24 - 48hrs after stopping meds and about 12 hrs after a laxative prep.

Good luck to you and let us know how it goes or if you need the protocol.