New Poster-c.diff without diarrhea

[chrissy72]

Hi everyone,

I am going through my second bout of c.diff. I got my first bout last year. It took quite a while to get the diagnosis because I had to convince my doctor she should check my stool. She kept telling me I had bleeding from hemorrhoids and IBS. IBS of course, does not produce bleeding. So I took the flagyl last time and when I finished I had a negative stool sample.

A few weeks ago I started to notice my stools had changed. I would feel the urge to go but then only produce very small amounts that seemed mucousy. I did have some abdominal cramping but again, no diarrhea. I made my doctor retest my stool and sure enough it came up positive for c.diff. My doctor was confused as to why I would have this again since she was shocked Ihad it the first time. I guess she's under the impression you can only get it if you have some type of underlying health issues. Is that true? She had me see a GI specialist who didn't seem concerned and told me there is a high recurrence rate.

This round of treatment is strange. For the first 4 days on flagyl, I seemed to be getting better and tolerating the meds well. But then on day 5 I started to have nausea anytime my stomach is empty. Still no diarrhea but when I do go I go alot-formed but softer. I'm going maybe twice a day. I have had IBS with that pattern in the past. But I'm so confused. I don't know whether the flagyl is starting to effect me badly or the symptoms I have are from the c.diff. I will be finished with my flagyl on Thursday morning. By the time I retest my stool and get the results it will be early next week. I'm nervous that the meds aren't working and I'm getting worse. From your experience is it normal to tolerate the flagyl for the first couple of days and then feel horrible? Does anyone have a weird painful feeling in their rectum? I know I have internal and external hemmorhoids so I'm not sure if that's the cause of my "pain in the butt"

[beth22]

I had the same exact scenario with my c diff. When I first got it last year I was actually constipated, but did have the blood and mucus and my test came up positive. I guess I had it the year before too, but never got tested, ate lots of yogurt and it went into hiding until I took antibiotics and got what I mentioned above. I never took Flagyl, but vanco right off and experienced the same thing as you. First the stools got normal looking, then softer and then I started going more often, even more than twice a day and got gas and stomach ache and the "pain the butt". I went off the vanco and tested negative a few times and then about 3 weeks later was positive again and then had the same scenario repeat after I would go off the vanco. Maybe for those of us who didn't have the D* initially this is what happens, at least it did to me.

[anlockwood]

Welcome to the site...you will get an official welcome from a mod very soon.

When you first got c diff had you been on antibiotics within 3 months previous? It is rare to get c diff without being on antibiotics but has happened. Also how long was it between ending treatment and testing positive this time? Usually if someone is going to relapse without the use of antibiotics it occurs within 90 days but there have been some cases where it happened further out. Also there have been people on this site who have had c diff but not had the D that goes along with it so it does happen although not commonly. You don't have to have underlying health issues to get c diff but the use of antibiotics is ussually the culprit. Many of us had iron clad stomachs and no health issues before c diff. Flagyl is a nasty nasty medicine. You will have ups and downs on it. I know it made me feel terrible but it worked. You will find sometimes you have increased BM's. It seems to be a part of recovery. If you started having full blown D and it continued then you may want to call your dr and check about changing treatment plans. For most Flagyl works but for some Vanco is required if Flagyl is not working. If I were you I would think only going twice a day is fantastic and remember formed is formed and not D and so that is always a huge plus. Nausea can be a huge side effect of Flagyl. I had it something fierce as I think many others on here did as well. If you continue to feel sicker don't be afraid to call you dr, its not bothering them, its their job.

Amanda

[chrissy72]

Thanks Beth-Because I have atypical symptoms i was starting to think there was something else wrong with me.

Amanda-I got c.diff the first time around about a month after I finished using zithromax for a sinus infection. The problem is that I developed symptoms in May 2008 but finally convinced my doctor to test my stool in October 2008. I took 10 days of flagyl and then tested negative but even though my test was negative I could swear I still had the c.diff. But because I take acidophillous, I think it took a long time to come back enough for me to really want my stool tested again.

[beth22]

Chrissy - I do have something else actually - SIBO which is small intestine bacterial overgrowth and has been worse for me than the c difficile. I got it after treatment. I could not tolerate a lot of foods - still can't and had a lot of gas and other symptoms. Some people wind up with this after having intestinal infections, so if your tests continue to be negative, you can ask your doctor about it. I was c diff negative for 7 months and had these symptoms during that time and could have sworn on many occasions that the c diff was back. It did come back about a month ago after taking Cipro, so I'm back to square one, and now have both issues to deal with. But, expect to have intestinal upsets for a while after you get rid of the c diff because your intestines have to heal.

[chrissy72]

Thanks for the help Roy. Both of my stool tests were to identify c. diff toxins. They were both solid bowel movements. The first time I knew there was something wrong with me because I would go normal but intermittently I would have strange bowel movements. Sometimes I would feel the urge to have a bowel movement but only mucous and blood would come out. But I was never sure if that was just part of my hemorrhoids because I still had very solid bowel movements.

This time around it was similar except I really didn't have much blood but the bowel movements were more like "rabbit droppings" as they were smaller (dime size). But they were still solid and altered between that and normal bowel movements.

The GI specialist mentioned that he thought maybe the c.diff colonized. But then he said "well it was a positive toxin test". So I wasn't sure what the colonization remark was about. Does that mean I'm just a carrier? Can some people test positive without having an active infection?

Its so confusing to me now because the treatment of flagyl has blurred my symptoms. I can't decipher what's the c.diff and what's the medicine. I still don't have diarrhea. But my stomach has some gas and cramps that are new since being on the meds. The analpram cream the doctor gave me for the hemorrhoids seem to help. Teh blood was bright red from my hemmorhoids.

I have been told in the past by previous doctors that I have IBS. I never had any formal testing. But I can say that when I eat right, exercise, and do diaphramatic breathing, my IBS is fine. I tend to have the constipation kind and I get a dull ache right below my diaphragm. Stress is my biggest trigger for IBS. For the most part, foods don't seem to effect me. Sometimes if I have too much dairy, my stomach cramps.

[beth22]

Again, Chrissy what you are describing is exactly how my c diff started. The blood and mucus I was told by my doctor was because it had given me pseud. colitis, which is already the next step in c diff. My first sample was completely solid, but tested positive for the toxin because it is the toxin that caused the blood and mucus. At that point I didn't want to take any medication, but I had a lot of gas and the urgency to go all the time, so the doctor told me the stories about people getting their colons out, etc. and it scared me into taking vanco. I didn't take Flagyl because I'm sensitive to a lot of meds and my mother got peripheral neuropathy from it, plus with the pseud. colitis I was already a candidate for the vanco. Even though the medication I took is different from yours, the effects seem to be the same too. I don't think I had IBS prior to getting c diff, but I was more on the constipated side, which later I was told was probably small bowel overgrowth, which is just another name for a type of IBS. It never bothered me though and I was able to eat lots of salads and fruit, etc., something I have not done in over a year now.

Unless your symptoms had cleared up on their own, and mine, like yours, did the first time, but then came back later after taking ABs and continued, you really didn't have much choice of whether to take antibiotics or not.

And Roy, there are reports of elderly people dying from c diff that were actually constipated with it, as many elderly people are - so c diff can get you either way. It is worse in a way when you are constipated because just like when you take something to stop the diarrhea and the motility is affected, the toxins stay in and cause damage. When I had the constipation with the c diff is when I had the worst symptoms of the irregular heartbeats and my heart racing. So, it really does affect people differently and it is good to be tested rather than be sorry after.

I often wish that I hadn't started treatment and it might have cleared on its own as before, but I think it would have caught up with me later anyway when I took any AB for anything else. Plus the irregular heartbeats were from that and had been misdiagnosed for a long time, so I don't know what effect that would have on the heart long-range. When I took the vanco I still had fast heartbeats sometimes, but not the irregular ones.

After you stop the medication, Chrissy, your stools may not go back to normal for a long time, but they should be better at least. A lot of people take probiotics and eat yogurt which helps too.

Beth

[Nancy1]

chrissy72,
Here's the official welcome: Welcome to the group that no one wants to join. Be sure to read All Users Read This First, Dr. Borody's article, Dr. McDonald's article (in the FAQ section under Articles by Experts), and all areas in FAQ that concern you.

You've gotten lots of good advice. Yes, you can be colonized (and test postive) without active symptoms; that could mean that the rest of your gut flora is keeping the cdiff under control. I had bleeding with every relapse. At first I would go to the ER whenever I had blood, but I learned that it was normal for me. For the future, please put graphic descriptions in the TMI section -- thanks.

[beth22]

The reports I was referring to mentioned no diarrhea at all - just fever. I researched it because I did not have the D* and wondered if it was possible to have the c diff with normal stools or constipation and the cases I saw were like mine. I did not have fever until this last relapse 3 weeks ago that was like the textbook description. But initially it was exactly as Chrissy described and my doctor said that sometimes it does manifest itself like this. The test I had was a toxin test, not a culture and the test was positive for c diff. In a later relapse this happened again. However, both times I did have the bleeding and mucus. Just don't want anyone to disregard symptoms thinking that it has to be D* because even though it is for most people, it is not always the case.

[chrissy72]

Beth-can you describe what you mean by constipated? I'm always confused when the doctors talk about constipation. Does that mean not going every day or does it also mean harder consistency or both?

What is SIBO and can you get rid of it?

Do you need testing to determine you have it?

[beth22]

Chrissy - I'll pm you the details as we are not in the "TMI" section and it is a little detailed. Check your private messages.

Beth