Spores ?

[Ali-Mar]

Here are some crazy questions re C-Diff infection, recurrences and spores
For how long a person will carry spores in our gut? For the rest of our life?
If so, will we be shedding spores and continue to be contagious?
Can the person infect himself from the spores he is shedding?

[poppy86]

My doctor told me that once the diarrhea subsides and things are back to "normal", people are no longer contagious. Honestly I don't really buy that. I think that certain precautions are important: wash hands meticulously with soap after using the restroom; clean the bathroom with bleach often; don't keep your toothbrush in the bathroom; flush with the toilet lid closed. Don't let anyone else use your towels, wash towels after each use. Personally I don't sleep naked, I wear underwear plus long pants to keep things "contained," and wash the sheets every few days. Wash underwear with bleach, wash everything with hot water and dry on the highest heat setting. Don't touch your face, always wash your hands before eating and preparing food. This is how I live, it's the only way that I get any peace of mind. I assume I will be shedding spores for the rest of my life.

[roy]

C.diff is a normal gut bacteria that around 1 in 20 people carry.
Its transient, meaning it's not permanent.
If it overgrows it might cause a disease called clostridium difficile colitis.
Having c.diff bacteria or spores is NOT a disease.
That's why if you dont have D you should not test.
Nature deals with the spores and not many people become permanent carriers, probably none!

[Ali-Mar]

Poppy,

I do exactly the same , I always wear a long pants (no shorts) and socks all the time, to make sure I don't contaminate the chairs , bedding and living room furniture, even though it gets very hot here in South California.

I use the towels once, and shower every day. The hand towels, I change twice per day. and use disposable medical gloves in the shower when washing from waist down .

I also use disposable medical gloves anytime I use the the bathroom and I have installed toilet seat bidet (bought it from Amazon), it is very good and easy to install. So I am washing thoroughly anytime I use the toilet before wiping , obviously I have the gloves on. I spray the toilet and around it with bleach every time I flash. No one else uses my bathroom, I wear sandals when going bathroom area. I bleach the whole bathroom and shower area twice per week (maybe should do it more often ?). We no longer allow anyone wearing outside shoes in the house, I am worry the sole of shoe might be contaminated.

I wash the bedding two or 3 times per week, with the hottest water when it is done, I run the wisher one more time with hottest water again ( 2 cycles every time), I do the same from the clothes and towels. As far as the underwear, I leave them in the boiling water in the backyard for about 15 minutes before putting them in the washer, I don't want to contaminate the washer. And I wash them twice with the hottest water. I don't touch food or dishes. and I don't eat anything the requires using my fingers to eat. I take my pills using small pill container ( I don't touch them). I don't touch anything that i eat after is cooked...

My life has been all about C Diff since March 2 when I first heard of C-Diff

I am online reading about C-Diff all day, but I still cannot find out a lot of info on spores, the length of their life and how long they stay in the gut. I seen people here on this site having recurrent C-Diff 5 or 10 years after the original infection. To me that sound like they had the C-Diff Spores in the gut for the whole time ready to infect when the gut environment was right for it. The probability of getting C-Diff is 0.15%, it is very little to starts with. So I am thinking the odds of the same person contracting it for the 2nd time should be very slim,( zero), unless he has spores in the gut. I think a lot of us will have spores in our gut for rest of our lives ( I am not an expert but this is what I think). I read spores can survive in the environment and surfaces for many years, I seen numbers as high as 4 years online

[poppy86]

Ali-Mar, I hope you and I and everyone else here dealing with this recovers soon. I had never heard of c.diff before my experience with it, but I quickly discovered what a nightmare it is. Best wishes for all of us to get well.

[AllisS]

Ali-Mar, hardly any of the exhaustive -- and exhausting-sounding -- measures that you're taking to avoid "contamination" are necessary. Merely sitting on furniture with shorts on, for example, will not put anyone at risk of C. diff nor would it put you at risk of reinfection. Boiling clothes is also a waste of time and effort. Only if items are soiled would they pose a problem, in which case you'd do best just to discard them. As for the concerns about spores, Roy's explanation is the best I've seen or read anywhere. I understand the obsessive worry about transmission and reinfection; I experienced it myself, when I had C. diff some years ago. But it can take on a life of its own if you're unable to accept reassurances that are fact-based.

[Caligirl]

I second AllisS’s post. My GI was wayyyy overly cautious, and even he said that the measures that I was taking were too extreme. So after that during my active infection, these are the measures that I took:
Kept my panties and towels separate until I washed them (and washed with hot water)
Since we have multiple bathrooms, I had my own bathroom and used a bleach wipe after each BM.
Regularly bleached bathrooms and heavily touched areas (light switches, doorknobs, etc)
I had multiple health issues happening and had a newborn so my mom was staying with us, so I had her prepare food. If I didn’t have her here, I would have just been very careful with hand washing and would have been fine cooking.
And honestly I think that was it! And no one in my family got sick. As Roy said, it is possible that they picked up the bacteria, but they didn’t get sick.

Once “out of the woods”, these are the precautions that I take (which I think everyone should take regardless if they’ve had C Diff):

Wash my hands after using the restroom, before cooking/eating, when I get home from being out.
Use bleach to clean my bathrooms
And honestly that’s it.

If you’re worried about being contagious, keep your undergarments and towels in a trash bag until you wash them. Boiling them outside seems so exhausting/extreme and I truly don’t believe there is a benefit. I would encourage you to try to find a way to be careful, but not live in fear. This site provided me with some wonderful advice that helped me so much. I dealt with SEVERE anxiety from the c diff along with postpartum depression. I thought that c diff would rule my life. Now I get on here occasionally to encourage people, use bleach on my bathrooms, and avoid antibiotics.

You will get through this too!

[BetsyS]

I have a follow up question. What does it mean to be colonized? The day my ID discharged me she told me my C Diff was colonized, and I needed to avoid antibiotics the rest of my life. If it couldn't be helped, I needed to be treated for C Diff while on them. Sounds like a life sentence to me.

[beth22]

I am colonized too. It means that the spores are there someplace and if you provide the right environment, they will activate. So, you want to avoid antibiotics as much as possible and when you need them, use the ones least likely to cause c diff if that is also possible. I have taken antibiotics without relapse after c diff, but when I was given strong IV antibiotics while in the hospital, I did test positive about a month later, although I did not need to treat. Just be careful and I would take probiotics along with any antibiotics in the future. That is what I do.

[Ali-Mar]

Thanks Beth,
I don’t quite understand, how do you know you have spores? Can the test detect spores?

I am still learning, but I read the test can detect only the bacteria in “vegetative “ form (not spores) and the toxin. If only the bacteria is detect but not toxin no treatment is required

[beth22]

The spores don't get killed with antibiotics. They go into hibernation so to speak. So, when you create a favorable environment, they can activate. That is what happened to me and others. It doesn't mean they will activate. As Roy pointed out, c diff is probably in many people's digestive tract, but causes no harm unless it overgrows.

[andy2007]

I have had two negative tests now so I know I don’t have c diff, but whether Or not I carry spores I don’t know. My doctor said that the test could not detect spores. Do the spores ever disappear, or as Roy said, “ Nature deals with them?”
I have often wondered that. If they do disappear, that would explain why people don’t relapse again after antibiotics. That is assuming that they didn’t come into contact with c diff again either in a hospital or community setting.

Andrew

[roy]

My oppinion is that once you have had c.diff its proof that antibiotics have such a detrimental effect on your personal make up of gut flora that another future antibiotic will cause the same disruption and you can pick up a brand new infection.
NOT that it's the spores sitting inside you!
It's like putting your hand in a flame to see if it burns the same as the last time you got burnt.
If you do the same thing expect the same result.

[Ali-Mar]

That sounds very reasonable, but the odds of the same person getting a new infection is so low, vast majority of people never heard of C-Diff not even once, so getting it multiple times is hard to believe. And it is reasonable to assume the folks that had C-Diff once, they won't eat uncooked food and wash the hands thoroughly etc while on antibiotic!

[roy]

Wrong!
Around half of "relapses" over 30 days past symptoms resolving that are tested by a full culture are actualy a new infection with a diferent strain.
C.diff is a VERY VERY common bacteria!