frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

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posta
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frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby posta » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:24 am

dear all,
just like most of us probably, i am going through mental ups and downs with this cdiff issue.
i am on 7th day of vancomycin and today i have had very frequent BM with really small cramps and slight nausea.
i used to have that kind of feeling in my stomach with my beautiful IBS when i was diagnosed with decades ago, but IBS wasnt the problem in the past few years for me.
i was wondering - does more frequent stools while on therapy/vanco means that bug is still working its thing and provoke frequent BM and does it mean i have more chance to slip into relapse once the treatment (14 days) is finished?
i know there is no medical advices here, but will appreciate any personal experience, did you have frequent BMs while on meds, did you relapse afterwards, did you notice any kind of connection between relapse and frequency of BM?
i also have that ugly feeling of emptiness and slight nausea after second or third BM and hear some churning (is that a word? i apologize since english is not my native language) in my bowels...and it make me sooo anxious.

i have been dealing with this for just 2 weeks now and i am already pretty scared and exhausted from overthinking...:(

thanks for every advice, tip and suggestion you might have.

x

MKW
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Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:49 am

Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby MKW » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:02 am

Hi posta, it seems everyone is different and people can have looser stools during or after treatment, and it not mean relapse or impending relapse. I had solid BM’s on Vanco and relapsed a month later after a month of normalcy. On the other hand, over time I have seen posters who were not effectively responding to their Vanco dosage and had to increase it. I wanted to say my subjective personal experience was that “watery” diarrhea was indicative of CDiff symptoms. Not loose, not partly solid... watery. This is the typical symptom.

posta
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Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby posta » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:45 am

dear MKW, thank you so much for replying and sharing your experience.
the more i research, the more i understand it is all so individual and everyone is different.
were you able to identofy what triggered your relapse? and did you manage to cure it completely by now?
wish you all the best,
a

MKW
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Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:49 am

Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby MKW » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:38 am

I relapsed three times. The first within a few days of one round of Flagyl. The second time a month after second round of Flagyl - took florastor. The third time a month after Vanco with 6 week taper - drank kefir. Had perfectly normal bm’s And sudden onset severe relapse for no identifiable reason. Scary huh? I was cured by a one time FMT, but still have IBS nine months later. However... I consider FMT to be a miracle :-) basically, spores remain and if you have not repopulated enough good bacteria you are going to relapse. If I could go back in time I would have done a longer taper, and taken an expensive multi strain probiotic following. The key is bacterial diversity for a healthy microbiome. I always tell people hope for the best and prepare for the worst with this. Always have your next treatment plan worked out ahead of time just in case. But most people are cured with one or two rounds of meds.

posta
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Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby posta » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:10 pm

dear MKW,
thanks for sharing this.
yes, thats the scary part - not knowing when and will it happen again:(
if i understood correctly, flagyl or vanco kill it, but spores stay dormant and new antibiotic can activate them.
but, i dont understand from where relapse come if you dont take another antibiotic after treating c diff? or relapse is the result of unsuccessfull treatment... this disease is really crazy.
what makes me more anxious is the fact that i will finish my 14-days vanco on december 20th which means i might relapse in the middle of holidays which might be really unpleasant and not sure will i be able to reach my doctor. definitely will have to plan this ahead as you suggested.
medications are all i have as, unfortunately, where i live FMT is not an option.
in any case, thank you so much for all the info, im learning something new every day.
take care, x

MKW
Regular Contributor
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:49 am

Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby MKW » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:15 pm

There are moderators on here that can explain this way better than me...but, spores stay dormant if good bacteria keep them in check. A new antibiotic use kills the good bacteria keeping it in check, it does not directly reactivate spores. After the good bacteria are gone, the spores revert to a vegetative state and reproduce and then start kicking out enough toxins that our colon then has a reaction to - called active c Diff infection. Think of CDI as being caused by dysbiosis. It is unknown if any treatment even FMT ever eradicates c Diff completely. A negative test does not mean you have zero spores left. Key is reestablishibg a diverse microbiome with regular intake of probiotic and prebiotic foods.
So relapse happens if you don’t have enough good bacteria to keep those few remaining spores in check, and it just overgrows again. Btw, I had to travel about an hour and a half for my FMT. In my area it’s only done at teaching hospitals.

posta
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Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby posta » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:23 pm

thank you so much for this clarification, it is much clearer now. it is sort of something i assumed that happens, but wasnt sure.
and in regards to fmt, unfortunately, it can not be done in my country at all, so that is my problem. even vanco i got through some semi official channels as it is used only for patients at the hospitals. let us hope i will not need fmt and that meds will work their way.
wish you all the best and thanks for being there for me, answering all the silly questions.
x

MKW
Regular Contributor
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:49 am

Re: frequent stools - more chance for relapse?

Postby MKW » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:51 pm

Ok, well since you do have access to Vanco, you may want to read up on Vanco taper/pulse regimens. This is often successful and the approach taken after a couple standard 10-14 days rounds fail. There is lots of info on the board about this.


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