Unconventional Treatment

Treatments, possible treatments, unsubstantiated/unproven treatments. Consult your doctor first.
ode2joy
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Unconventional Treatment

Postby ode2joy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:25 pm

New member - I have read the rules. I am a healthy 53 yr old female, vegetarian. A "Walk in clinic" doctor (in Canada) prescribed me Amoxicillan and Flagyl for a swollen gum, then told me to follow up with the dentist. Being that i had not been on antibiotics in 30 years I questioned him as to why "2"? He said because he is not sure of the cause and this is "standard practice". i then questioned the pharmacist who pretty much told me the same thing. I trusted. Finished the antibiotics and started getting IBS symptoms which I would get once about every 2 years or so. It always would correct itself after a couple days. This time it didn't. I noticed frequent trips to the bathroom with small mucousy secretions. I started adjusting what I was eating and the IBS went away such as, abdominal pain, or spastic colon. But I remained bloated and tender from the top of my stomach to the bottom of my belly. I had no other symptoms. I did not have watery D. I made appointment with my GP and in the meantime I saw another doctor at the walk in clinic who sent me for blood test to check for elevated white blood cells. Came back normal. When I saw GP he suspected C Diff, sent me for stool sample. I had never heard of it. I started researching and began to freak out. So mad at that first doctor. 2 days later stool came back positive for C Diff. GP told me it is not standard practice to prescribe 2 different AB's, that it was "overkill". But what did he do? prescribed me Flagyl. I filled it and it is sitting on the kitchen counter as I try another natural method first. I found a video posted by an RN who cured herself of C Diff following Turmeric enema protocol. This gave me hope. I am on day 6 of the enemas and my symptoms are getting less and less. The 16 bathroom excretions per day has become 1-3 soft, fluffy stools per day. I am hoping this does it but I am still skeptical and will take the Flagyl if I stop improving. It has helped me greatly to read posts by other people who describe that some days it may feel the infection isn't leaving but it could also just be part of the slow healing process. I will update in 7 more days. I plan to do this treatment for at least 14 days. Not sure where to update, correct me if i need to be corrected. wishing everyone a healthy recovery. Thanks.

roy
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby roy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:35 am

It's fantastic that you seem to be getting well again.

C.diff is a disease if it causes D, not because of a test result.
The first "treatment" if a Dr suspects c.diff is to whenever possible stop the offending antibiotic (you did this)
When this is done at least 1 in 5 instances that show symptoms will resolve within a few days and no more treatment is needed.
If D stops theres no disease.
The important thing to realise is that you will still test positive!
Treating it once its resolved is like taking tylenol today for a headache that you had last week! 100% not needed!
One thing you need to discuss with your Dr is that if Flagyl was indicated as the causing antibiotic it should never be given to treat it.
Also Flagyl is no longer recomended as a c.diff treatment.
If symptoms (D) return your meds should be reviewed and you should not just start taking flagyl.
As for turmaric.
I have seen this as well but you must be aware that it's not a magic cure.
Theres no study to show if its destroying the good gut flora and a "natural antibiotic" is still an antibiotic.
It will not be targeting c.diff and leaving other species to flourish in peace!
If it was as simple as this I am sure the Drs would be using it on the half million people that get c.diff each year.
As with all these "natural remedys" its untested and in worst case it can cause serious reactions.
Natural does not mean safe.
Your recovery is taking the exact course that results in stopping the offending antibiotic.
Probably not because of turmaric enemas.
FYI
If you tested again now or in a few weeks time theres a 50/50 chance the test will still be positive.
You might even test positive for life. (actually a good thing, you have natural immunity)
A positive test does not mean your ill and does not mean you need treating.
Treat the patient, not a test result.

ode2joy
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby ode2joy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:13 pm

I will try to be a bit more clear. i was prescribed the 2 antibiotics for 7 days. On day 5 I started having loose stools, a few a day. So I took an Immodium. i finished the 7 days of AB's and the loose stools came back about 6 days later so I took another Immodium. (I now know that was bad) then about 3 days later I had the loose stools again this time with mucous. From what I understand not everyone gets watery D with C Diff. It was later that night that I had the spastic colon that kept me awake (IBS symptoms). Next day I told my husband I better get some Probiotics as I suspect the AB's ruined my gut. So I started taking a "one a day" pill. The trips to the bathroom were about 6 times a day, very small secretions but not watery. About 3 days later is when I felt the tenderness all over my upper and lower belly and felt sooo bloated. I was very tired but not nauseated and no fever. I changed to pureed, soft low Fodmap foods and that is when the IBS symptoms went away but i was still going to the bathroom several times a day with minor cramping when I went and a feeling of not being emptied. Felt like my bowel wanted to come out.
That is when I went to "walk in clinic" who tested my blood, which was fine. A few days later my GP sent me for stool sample which came back positive for what I understood was toxins A and B. That is when he prescribed Flagyl. I feared that is the one that caused it but he said no, it was Amoxycillan. I suspect my doctor is behind the times on what should be the first line of treatment for C Diff.
I don't believe there is any magic cure. I believe that in taking the probiotics and Keifer I am doing all I can to replenish the good bacteria.
My doctor told me I will likely always carry the spores so I understand this would be in a stool sample but if there are no symptoms then all is well. In my case, I do have symptoms. I went from going to the bathroom approx 16 times per day down to 3-4 which is more like mush than anything. The odd time I have had watery D but never enough to consider myself at risk of losing all my electrolytes.
I hope this explains it better. As I see it, I didn't just stop the antibiotics and my symptoms started getting better. My symptoms got worse after finishing the 7 days. My trips to the bathroom lessened on day 2 of the enemas and the shape, consistency has changed but is still not normal. I am hoping for the best result here without the use of AB's. I would choose Turmeric any day over Pharma.
thanks

ode2joy
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby ode2joy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:16 pm

http://farahmd.blogspot.com/2011/11/tur ... r.html?m=1

The RN who cured herself with the enemas referred me to this link to the study that found Turmeric to be possibly just as effective as Vanco.
Might have to copy and paste it into the browser. Let me know if it opens or not.

NanciT
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby NanciT » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:30 pm

We have had several people come on to the site with various "treatments' for CDIFF which can be a very serious illness. We do not promote these untested types of treatment. We are a support site for those dealing with all the difficulties that come along with CIDIFF.

It actually does surprise me that any Nurse would promote an unproven, untested treatment for this illness. It is unethical and goes against so much we practice in Nursing.

I always recommend that poster's see a gastroenterologist or ID physician.

NanciT

beth22
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby beth22 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:40 am

The nurse you mention actually posted this information on here a few years ago. As Nancy said, we do not and cannot endorse any of these treatments because we are a support group. I do know that turmeric was prescribed for me by the GI motility specialist that I see for SIBO, but in pill form. Actually, it was curcumin, a derivative of turmeric. I did not really see any benefit and as it gave me acidity,so I did not continue it. Many doctors that practice holistic medicine prescribe supplements. If these enemas are not causing you any side effects and seem to be helping, you might as well finish. I have done FMT enemas at home successfully, but I have not tried any with either probiotics or any supplements. Other posters have with mixed results.

ode2joy
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby ode2joy » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:55 am

For sure. I totally agree. I am not here to endorse this treatment or ask anyone else to. I was simply sharing what I found and am trying as I feel I have nothing to lose. Of course I know how serious it is that is why i said if my symptoms get worse I will for sure get on the AB. The doctors cannot tell me for certainty that more AB’s are the best thing but it is all they have right now.
I am not suggesting that anyone not consult their doctors and follow doctors orders. I just wanted to share what is happening in my case as all cases are different.
I had more improvement today. 3 mushy movements with no pressure or cramping. Too early to celebrate but I am hopeful.
I hope this site is all about cheering people along as they walk toward wellness, regardless of what route they take.
Thanks for your support.

Ril
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby Ril » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:00 pm

Just a caution- again, as with NanciT, the nurse in me comes out as I look at the research article with a skeptical eye and see it was done in 2011 and I personally can’t find any supportive research after that. I hope you - and others- will remember what Roy said about the body sometimes being able to fight off c diff on its own, and about needing the use of appropriate antibiotic treatment if your symptoms get worse.

ode2joy
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby ode2joy » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:51 pm

That’s right. I have not found any supportive research after that study either. I also noticed that all 3 groups were taking Flagyl at the same time. This is what I had considered but I figured if someone else tried it with such curing results without the AB then I will try that first. When I spoke to my GP after the stool test he told me it sounded like I was getting worse in spite of being finished with the offending AB’s so he urged me to start taking the Flagyl right away. When I went for follow up visit with him a week later (day 5 of the enemas) he was surprised that I was getting better. He said he still recommended the AB treatment but his main concern is that I was getting better. He said that’s all he cares about, not the “how” I’m doing it.
I am still committed to asking him for the Vanco though instead of the Flagyl should my symptoms start coming back or if I stop improving.
One last thought I have, just because something has not been “tested” does not mean it is not an effective treatment. It just means a health care professional cannot endorse it. It just means it hasn’t been tested. Doesn’t mean it has no value and should not be tried. I am happy to be a huge advocate for my own body and health and happy to work alongside my doctor in that regard. How amazing would it be if this protocol actually gave long term results without resorting to AB’s.!!! Would this not be an awesome thing in my case? How encouraging and full of hope. Bless you all.

roy
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby roy » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:26 pm

Turmaric has been tested and shown to have antinflamatory property's.
Natures ibuprofen!
It also interacts with many meds so have a look at WebMD.
Possibly helps with post infection IBS but not a cure for c.diff

beth22
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby beth22 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:06 am

My only suggestion would be that if you do need antibiotics, and hopefully you won't, tell the doctor that you do not want Flagyl. If your insurance covers Dificid, that would be the best choice. If not, then vanco over Flagyl.

Machaon
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby Machaon » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:46 pm

Hi ode2joy!

I hope that your turmeric treatments are continuing to improve your c-diff condition. I imagine that you selected your member name from your positive feeling about finding something that is helping you.

I am 74 and have had to deal with really great doctors and surgeons and, sadly, really REALLY bad doctors and surgeons. Just because someone is wearing a white coat, that says MD, doesn't mean that their opinions are medical certainty. Most of the time, their opinions are just "educated" guesses.

That said, good for you! The exact science or medical truth doesn't matter as much as your results!

In my case, I relapsed once with Flagyl and twice with Vancomycin and went thru six horrible months before Dificid came to my rescue. Three days after ending the second round of vancomycin, I started feeling ill again. I immediately called my doctor and requested Dificid, and did not wait for the c-diff symptoms to get worse. I had enough vancomycin to keep the c-diff in check until I got the dificid.

Anyways... just wanted to congratulate you and wish you well and continued improvement and cure!

Regards, Bob
Male 77 S.Florida

900 weight lifts 750 knee bends day

Since 1987 had CHF afib asthma

I inhale $6 Flonase nasal spray for asthma :)

Ex C-diff (4/19/17- 9/12/17) after 10 days dificid

Diet:6 meals ~1500 cals 2 eggs 2 steamed broccoli, apple, bagels

christos
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby christos » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:37 pm

Wow, this is surreal to read. This was my exact experience in Vancouver, Canada, dentist -> double antibiotics induced over 7 days -> flagyl not vanco for treatment.

Try get in to see an ID specialist and don't delay if you're not improving on home remedies, I only say this because lead times in Vancouver where a nightmare. I don't want to scare you, I'm optimistic, your case sounds much better than mine.

The double antibiotics is because dental surgery is serious, and especially if you had a procedure that exposes bone/marrow. Complications and risks associated with the bone infections seem to be more serious than CDIFF. I try to remind myself of this so I don't get to upset about it hahahaha.

AllisS
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby AllisS » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:02 am

christos, the post that you're commenting on is now five months old.
If your illness was preceded by use of a medication, e.g., an antibiotic, please fill out an FDA Adverse Event Report at http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/default.htm

D1dad
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Re: Unconventional Treatment

Postby D1dad » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:01 pm

NanciT wrote:
> We have had several people come on to the site with various
> "treatments' for CDIFF which can be a very serious illness. We do not
> promote these untested types of treatment. We are a support site for those
> dealing with all the difficulties that come along with CIDIFF.
>
> It actually does surprise me that any Nurse would promote an unproven,
> untested treatment for this illness. It is unethical and goes against so
> much we practice in Nursing.
>
> I always recommend that poster's see a gastroenterologist or ID physician.
>
> NanciT
Yeah well my idiot ER doc prescribed me a prescription anti diahrrea and Norco. My ID doc also recommended brewers yeast. Just because someone is saying something natural works for them doesn’t mean this site supports it. If that’s the case tell everyone who takes Florastor or drinks kefir the same. I’m not trying to be a jerk but I enjoy the different opinions. For crying out loud this disease is bad enough without the constant scolding that goes on around here.


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