other treatment

Treatments, possible treatments, unsubstantiated/unproven treatments. Consult your doctor first.
roman78
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other treatment

Postby roman78 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:40 am

Hi,
I am from europe (Slovakia)
My mom has this problems from september this year she lost weight (22kg) she will be next saturday 70. 3-4 days after using antibiotics and the symptoms was back.She has first Clostridium difficile after then they have made colonoscopy and said inflammation large intestine and now after colonoscopy they said Clostridium again.From last hospital releasing was 23.11.17 she has taken normix(rifaximín) has strong stomach pain and after 7 days diarrhea was back.Now she is (4) back in hospital.
After consulatation doctor at a hospital with other doctor in Czech hospital they try on my mom its combination non antibiotics (Enterol it has Saccharomyces boulardii (CNCM I-745),probiotics with Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG, LGG and Wobenzym. I hope it helps .

NanciT
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Re: other treatment

Postby NanciT » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:14 am

Hello and Welcome to the site Please read the first thread for all new posters

I am so sorry about your Mom. I am not familiar with enterol, I looked it up here in the US and don't believe it is used here. The main drug used is Vancomycin. Can you speak with your Mom's doctor about this? I don't know if its available but I do know most of Europe does use this medication.

It sounds like she is on a probiotic which is good. Wish I wish I could help more, sorry she is going through this

NanciT

roy
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Re: other treatment

Postby roy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Hello Roman.
Georgina is in Romania and will comment soon.
The treatment for your mother should be oral metronidazol or vancomycin.
Probiitics alone are very unlikely to help with active c.diff.
Vancomycin is available in Slovakia but it might be expensive.
There is another drug, fidaxomycin, it might be called Dificlir in Slovakia.
That one is very expensive but is probably the best.
The medication she has already had is not very effective.

georgina
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Re: other treatment

Postby georgina » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:35 pm

Hi Roman
I'm from Europe , Romania as Roy said.
The treatment protocol for Cdiff is the same like in US. You start with oral Metronidazol , and if that doesn't work you take the next line of treatment witch is the Vancomycin . Difclir is available in Europe but is very expensive and our insurance won't do anything to cover it so most of us need t pay for it out of our pocket. We have Normix here as well but is used as a chaser to Vanco or sometimes along with Vanco but not used by itself.
Have you done some research regarding FMT , it has the highest cure rate .In Romania we have doctors that do FMT trough colonoscopy or nasogastric infusions , i'm sure that are a few slovakian doctors that can do FMT for your mom you just have to look into it more. Enterol is Saccharomyces boulardii , is a friendly yeast that won't be killed by the antibiotics , will help fight the infection along with the treatment but by itself it won't cure it.

roman78
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Re: other treatment

Postby roman78 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:12 am

Hi
By my mom vancomycin failure, Metronidazol failure.
Fisrt treatment was in Prešov Hospital infectious Department second treatment was in Poprad Hospital geriatric department with consultation from Prešov third was Poprad hospital on the internal department and now there is back in geriatric department.My mom She should be in Prešov in infectious department but they rejected it(they do not know what to do with my mom since all antibiotics treatment faild).All treatments were covered by health insurance
Info about enterol its not antibioticum
Enterol https://www.adc.sk/databazy/produkty/de ... 80523.html
regitsration holder BIOCODEX 7 avenue Gallieni 94250 Gentilly France
Pharmacotherapeutic group: antidiarrheals, intestinal antiinfectives and antiphlogistics,
antidiarrheal microorganisms, ATC code: A07FA02
Saccharomyces boulardii (CNCM I-745) is a substitute for intestinal flora that acts as anticardiorous microorganisms in the digestive tract.
The pharmacodynamics of Saccharomyces boulardii (CNCM I-745), live probiotic cultures, have been demonstrated in various models of in vitro and in vivo animal and human studies that demonstrate that they have the effect of:
- anti-inflammatory (enterohemorrhagic E. coli),
- antimicrobial (enterohemorrhagic E. coli, C. difficile, S. typhimurium, Yersinia enterolitica, C. albicans, C. krusei, C. pseudotropicalis),
- enzymatic (disaccharidase: leucine aminopeptidase, spermine, spermidine),
- metabolic,
- anti-toxic (C. diff toxin A, cholera toxin),
- and immunostimulatory (secretion-IgA and immunoglobulins), which are advantageous in the use of Saccharomyces boulardii (CNCM I-745) in the treatment of diarrhea of ​​various origins (infectious-viral, non-bacterial) in humans.
Therapeutic indications
Saccharomyces boulardii (CNCM I-745) is indicated for the prevention and treatment of diarrhea of ​​various aetiology in adults and children such as:
- treatment of acute infectious (viral or bacterial) diarrhea,
- treatment and prevention of colitis and diarrhea caused by the use of antibiotics,
- Combination therapy with vancomycin / metronidazole, used to prevent the recurrence of Clostridium difficile disease,
- Preventive treatment of diarrhea caused by feeding via the enteral tube,
- treatment of diarrhea related to immunodeficiency syndrome,
- treatment of irritable bowel syndrome,
- treatment of tracheal diarrhea.



dosing of medicines starting last friday enterol first 3 days 1 tablet afternoon from today 2 tablets from enterol 1 morning and 1 evening, wobenzyn 3 tablets morning than afternoon 5 tablets and eveninjg 3 tablets and probiotics 1 morning and 1 evening. Good news from last night NO diarrhea my mom filling better (stools beginning to be more consistent). They have done yesterday mornig some blood tests but i will speak with moms doctor sunday personally. In this blood test some value go from 120 to 60 and mom told me that her doctor was so happy I will let you know what was that.
regarding FMT i know that has high success rate of healing but i thing it will be the last possibility.And I do not know if it is doing at all in Slovakia

Brane S
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Re: other treatment

Postby Brane S » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:15 am

Saccharomyces boulardii doesnt work on everybody like desired. Rhamnosus gg works the first couple of days and than it doesnt. Go to the pharmacy and ask them to give you all the probiotics that they have and search for one that has: Lactobacillus acidophilus LA-5 2 x 10(9) CFU, Bifidobacterium animalis subsp. lactis BB-12, take 3 times a day with meal. She must take probiotic all the time, only she can take a lower dose after 1 week ending antibiotic treatment. Best option is: vancomycin oral higher dose with food and 2 hours after antibiotic again small portion of food with probiotic, probiotic must be taken with food because stomach acid can kill the probiotic. She must not take any tea, garlic or food that is considered "healthy" in europe (balcans) I am from Macedonia so I know what weird shit eat people. I found that eating home bread with yogurt and quality cheese works best. Meat without any seasoning only salt well made every second day works great, every time different type of meat. Olives are your friend here, (not the green ones and extreme salty). Its all about the diet. Change the probiotic brand type every 5th day and find probiotics that have the farthest expiration date and always buy them from a big pharmacy. Probiotics die on temperature over 25c so she can be taking probiotic that has no probiotic in it. The key is to have more healthy bacteria than c.diff. You cant kill c.diff spores with anything you must outgrow them. Antibiotics just lower the number of bacteria in the gut.
Saccharomyces boulardii made my stomach a mess. I do not take that, i tried different types of probiotics and found 3 that suit me the best. But once you get c.diff you can not stop taking probiotic. I am on the 8th month taking probiotics ones per day after supper and i have not had diarrhea ever since.

roman78
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Re: other treatment

Postby roman78 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:34 am

Thank you very much for the info Brane.

roman78
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Re: other treatment

Postby roman78 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:26 am

From tommorow she will take vancomycin 500mg 4x a day with other preparations that are used (wobenzyn, enterol and probio-fix inum).

georgina
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Re: other treatment

Postby georgina » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:23 am

Roman , please read about Dificid or the FMT. Either of those two is a much better option.

roman78
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Re: other treatment

Postby roman78 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:17 am

Hi,
Last friday was my mom released from hospital colonoscopy was negative on cdiff has a normal stool she is healed. She take still wobenzyn but only 3 tablets a day and enterol 1 tablets a day but when she take last tablets from wobenzyn and enterol after then no more, probio-fix inum wil take long-term. She is now active like before.

NanciT
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Re: other treatment

Postby NanciT » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:22 am

Great News! Glad to hear your Mom is healing and getting back to normal!

Wishing her continued Health

Thank you for the update!

NanciT

georgina
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Re: other treatment

Postby georgina » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:26 am

It seems that the Vanco and probiotics have done the trick . Glad your mom is doing well . Try to keep her on a bland diet until her GI tract heals.

soloman
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Re: other treatment

Postby soloman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:06 am

We have to listen to doctor and follow the prescription.
Also drink barley water it will relieve your pain.


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