Flagyl vs Vanco Indecision

[hendrix]

Male 50 tested positive for C-Diff after several courses of antibiotics before and after a root canal, doctor prescribed 7 days of Flagyl, I tolerated it *okay*, felt better, then relapsed. After I learned that 7 days was not enough, and relapse was no surprise. After 2nd positive test saw my family doctor who wanted to prescribe a longer round of Flagyl. I came in convinced to move on to Vanco as my research indicates it is slightly more effective with less side effects, although more expensive. It wasn't until I asked the pharmacist that I learned just how much more the Vanco was, over $300!!! Yikes!!! This infected tooth cost me thousands already, and between the probiotics and prescriptions I could go broke (no insurance)! The Flagyl seemed to work for me, and all I experienced during the 7 day course was a weird skin crawly tingly sensation, and supremely bummed out that I couldn't even enjoy a glass or two of wine once in a while. So I'm looking to others thoughts and experiences, although I realize every med effects every person a bit differently, just to try to assess whether the Vanco will be worth going into debt for, or should I give Flagyl one more shot. I should say that my relapse so far is tolerable- about 4 - 5 loose urgent BMs per day, some minor cramping at those moments, but otherwise I'm okay. I have been taking Florastor, drinking kefir, eating kimchi, taking pepto and activated charcoal, staying hydrated, etc. So I don't think I'm a severe case by any stretch. Thoughts? Experiences?

[Bobbie]

See CDI - Vancocin conversion into liquid. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=699

Consult with your doc about taking another round of Flagyl. It works for some but. It for others.

Best of luck.

[hendrix]

Thanks, Bobbie. I should have mentioned, I'm in Canada. Not sure if our pharmacies work the same, but I'll look into that option for lower cost Vanco. The Doctor recommended another round of Flagyl. He said Vanco is only for stubborn cases or for people who can't tolerate Flagyl.

[georgina]

Seems to me that yur doctor doesn't know much about CDiff if he told you that Anco is for stubborn cases or fr people who can't tolerate Flagyl.Flagyl isn't even FDA approved anymore , the FDA approved treatment for CDiff is Vanco and Dificid and for stubborn cases is FMT.Flagyl is a nasty drug with lots of side effects , kills alot of your good gut flora and there are lots of strains of Cdiff that don't respond to Flagyl these days.You should definitely ask for Vanco or Dificid as they have a higher cure rate.And to reduce cost , like Bobbie said , use the liquid Vanco converted in oral form , is waaaaay cheaper and i'm sure you will find it in pharmacy.I'm from Romania and here we don't have Vaco pills and we always use the liquid Vanco.Good luck!

[NanciT]

Flagyl is generally the first thing tried, I am hoping eventually that will stop. I am constantly looking into recent protocols and hate to see that drug tried. If they started with Vanco, I believe there would be alot less people suffering. I guess a case could be made that Flagly does work for some on the initial diagnosis/treatment but many MD's use it due to the low cost.
If you have relapsed on it, move onto Vanco if at all possible. As the others have mentioned, the liquid is much loss $$.
Hope you feel better soon
NanciT

[beth22]

I don't know about fewer people suffering with vanco. I never was given Flagyl for my c diff, but vanco right away and the higher dose 250mg, not 125mg. Despite the fact that it is supposed to kill less good bacteria, I am pretty sure that it wiped mine out, as my stool did not even have a smell to it and turned very light. It did not prevent relapses. I had many and the only thing that worked for me was FMT. But, vanco does have fewer side effects and if you had tingling with Flagyl, I would stay away from it. You don't want to end up with neurological issues.

[hendrix]

Thanks everyone. Pulled out the credit card, got the Vanco (wasn't easy to find. Most pharmacies didn't have it in stock), and took my first dose this morning. It was $315 for 56 x 125 mg pills. I don't quite have enough to do the taper, as I'd need about 70+ pills according to my math. Wondering if I should just take the 14 days x 4 per day or try some modified taper after 7 days until I run out. Got my fingers crossed!

[hendrix]

Oh yeah, and I ordered this (cannot justify the cost of VSL-3):
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B0056GCLV ... UTF8&psc=1
And this:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00FIEGQH ... UTF8&psc=1
And this:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B0013OQJN ... UTF8&psc=1
To take in between the Vanco.

[DawMa95]

You may want to speak to your doctor about Pepto. I think that may cause more harm than good. I am pretty sure that I read anti-diarrhea medications are bad while battling CDiff. Flagyl was brutal for me. I experienced really bad side effects during my first bout with CDiff. Not sure if most was from CDiff or the medication itself. What I can tell you is that Flagyl made me hallucinate (not fun). I'm rather petite, so perhaps that is why it had such a bad effect on me. I too had skin crawly and burning sensations, but recently had surgery on my face, so I'm not sure if it is from that or not. I'm still experiencing burning post flagyl and vancomycin, but again I don't think that it was from the medication. I was able to tolerate Vancomycin. The worst was setting my alarm during the night, so I wouldn't miss my dose (I had to take it four times per day every six hours for ten days). It took a while for me to get it because there was paperwork involved between the insurance company, my doctor, and the pharmacy that my doctor was ordering it from. Basically, in order to go on Vanco my insurance company needed proof that I was on Flagyl first and that it was treated for CDiff. I had to wait about two weeks to receive the Vanco after my relapse. I'm not sure what your experience will be like given that you do not have insurance, but I know Vancomycin is considerably more expensive. I think that is why the insurance company did not approve it right away. What I can tell you is my symptoms are better than what they were. What I can't tell you whether or not it cleared my CDiff. My doctor wanted me to retest after 14 days which I will be doing next week. I still have nausea, loss of appetite, food sensitivities, loose stools with occasional diarrhea, and occasional vomiting. These could be post-infectious symptoms, but for piece of mind I am retesting. From what I hear out there in the community and from my G.I. doc, you can have post infectious symptoms from weeks to months. I will let you know what my outcome is once I retest; however, I probably will not know for another two weeks. I have to provide a stool sample then the lab has to wait for the cultures to grow. Best of Luck to you! Sorry if my answer is wishy washy, but this is the first time that I ever experienced such a debilitating infection.

[Nancy1]

My doc said it was not too important to take Vanco every 6 hours, that it was more important to sleep at night. So I went about 7 or 8 hours between doses over night, and took the other 3 doses a little closer together than 6 hours during the daytime.

[hendrix]

I finished the 14 day course of Vanco over a week ago, 4 x 125 daily, and I did not note any side effects. I still find myself starting each day with 2 - 3 urgent loose BMs, which concerns me, but I have read that it can take weeks, even months, for one's system to return to some semblance of normal. Last few days the BMs increased to 4 or 5. They are mainly in the beginning of the day, and then through the afternoon and evening I'm pretty normal. I feel fine otherwise- no nausea or fever, I'm continuing my workout regimen and seem to have a decent energy level. I have continued to take the S.Boulardi (poor man's Florastor) and another high potency Probiotic supplement (poor man's VSL-3 is what I'm calling that one), along with Kefir (cup/day), homemade kimchi (3-4 forkfuls), kombucha (100-200ml/day). I also have oregano oil, activated charcoal and colostrum on call if I feel they will help. I'm still very concerned, but I'll see how the healing process goes over the next few days to a week. I will get retested but I still want to wait as I feel right now it will surely be positive. I do not want any more medication, and I can't really afford another round of Vanco. My improvement actually seemed to be better on the Flagyl (by day 5 or so stools were starting to be formed again), so if the doc had just prescribed the proper duration I may have never needed to go any further with meds. If things get worse I may resort to trying another round of flagyl, despite all the bad things I've read about it. My skin crawly sensation could have just been in my head. I certainly can't afford difficid even if my doc would prescribe it. Anyhow, hoping I can chase this away without meds...

[beth22]

Glad you are doing better. Give it some time. Introduce new foods slowly. Your GI system needs time to heal.

[hendrix]

Thanks Beth, but that's the thing- I feel like as soon as I stop the prescription, it's coming back. It did after the flagyl, and the vanco only mildly improved my symptoms and now that I'm off it over a week, the BMs seem to be getting worse again. So I guess I'm panicking a bit, thinking it's another relapse. Today for the first time in a while I resorted to taking Pepto late afternoon to go out and get some things done. Will give it time, but it's taking the edge off my maintained optimism that because it seems my C Diff wasn't an extreme case, that I'm only 50 and otherwise healthy, with no history of any digestive tract issues, a guy who would describe himself as having an iron gut, that I would not have a hard time kicking this thing. Grrr...

[Bobbie]

I was 52 when I developed c diff the first time in 1993. I, too, was healthy except for allergies and sinus problems. I had a cast iron stomach - could and did eat everything. I had one heck of a time battling c diff, however.

There are new treatments and research now so don't despair. Expect some off days. Many develop IBS - about out of 5. I was one. See CDI - Three Day Rule and IBS. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=672#p4787, if you continue feel,worse, ask to be retested, but wait 14'days if possible. See CDI Testing and Diagnosis viewtopic.php?f=4&t=135#p42285.

A heating pad can help with the pain and cramping.

[Lisa33]

In early recovery, I was one that had bad mornings as well. I would go loose to even D about 3-5 times. This was accompanied with nausea. And after that, I would be fine for the rest of the day. This lasted for quite some time for me. Then as time went on, things started to improve. The frequency got less and the nausea subsided. It actually took me about 8 months to have only 1 BM per day.

It is very hard sometimes to tell the difference between recovery and relapse. My doctor did retest me once during early recovery because I was almost certain it was back because of the frequency and looseness. I tested negative. So, go with your gut on how you are feeling. If it's just the mornings that are bad, I don't think that's uncommon. Give yourself some time. It takes a while to heal and get back to some sort of normalcy.

I don't think that you are in a relapse, but if God forbid things get worse, and you find yourself facing meds again, I definitely would not take Flagyl. I personally think it's a waste of time for a relapse, especially a second relapse. I relapsed after two weeks of finishing Flagyl. I was put back on Flagyl, and it made me sicker than the c-diff the second time around. Thanks to the great people on this board and the info they provided to me, I pushed to be switched to vanco. After suffering 9 days in hell with Flagyl, I was switched to the 14 day course of vanco which is what cured me. I felt soooo much better on the vanco, with no side effects. If I had relapsed again, my next step was going to be a vanco taper. And then after, it would have been Dificid.