Ordered VSL-3 but I dont want to over do it.

[saraht]

Hey guys! I was looking for some thoughts on probiotics, I just ordered VSL-3 packets and thought I would give it a try. If you recall from previous posts I suffer from yeast overgrowth due to all this stuff going on. I am down to one vanco every other day, and vaginal yeast creams and diflucan have not been working for me. I started doing a plain probiotic yogurt suppository, with added acidophilus mixed up in it, and so far so good! (knock on wood!)

But my question is how much is too much probiotic? I don't want to over do it. I started taking the probiotic Pro-B by rephresh they make for vaginal yeast infections, in the morning, drink kefir during the day and take an acidophilus caplet at night. I've always wanted to try VSL so I can try to get my poor flora back in order, and hopefully get this yeast beat down for good, as well as getting off the vanco without relapsing. So I thought about cutting back some on kefir, switching the Pro-B to night time before bed, and taking the VSL in the mornings. Is this still too much? Opinions??

[getwellsoon]

Probiotics are such a personal thing. Some people can take tons, others can't take any. If you can tolerate them I say go for it as long as your Dr. says ok. I'm glad the yeast thing is getting under control. I take VSL capsules. I only take one in the morning. Hope you are doing better soon. Have you thought about a FT? That might put things right once and for all. Carol

[saraht]

Thank you Carol,
I had actually seen a Dr for an evaluation on a FT but he didn't think I needed one because I respond well to vanco, even though I relapse when off. I tried explaining how beat down my flora is, and the problems I have with yeast, and he didn't seem too concerned. He had told me that the transplant didn't guarantee I would never relapse again if I took another antibiotic which I knew that. He didn't seem pro-FMT either. He did say if I would relapse again, he would consider doing a transplant. I haven't seen my ID Dr since I seen this GI dr. My ID Dr thought that I did need one, but this one disagreed. Honestly I am tired of going from Dr to Dr and getting no where. I lost count of how many Drs I have seen that have literally told me nothing new. Everything I do learn is thru research, and on here with all of you wonderful people.

It's hard living in such a small town, and having to travel to see a specialist that know a little more about the beast we all deal with compared to the locals, adding a 20 month old that I have to take everywhere I go. My husband works out of town driving for a living to support us, thank goodness hes home every night, but since he works such long hours I don't get much help. Which I'm not complaining, I love being a stay at home mom, we planned it this way before I got pregnant. Then of course when we finally did conceive (after a miscarriage) I got dealt the hand I am still currently dealing with. So I'm getting more into helping myself, trying more probiotics, and getting strict about dieting, and healthy living.

[beth22]

VSL#3 is pretty strong. I just take part of a capsule. I would suggest you try part of a packet first to see how you respond. Maybe you won't need a FT, but if you feel you do, you can also contact the Fecal Transplant Foundation listed on the site and see if they can refer you to someone in your area. When I first had a transfer in 2008, I had to go out of town for mine too. You do what you have to do. I must warn you though, that yes, I did relapse after I took Cipro again, so a FT is not a guarantee that you won't get c diff again if you take antibiotics.

[saraht]

I might be contacting that foundation sooner than expected. I stopped my vanco, been taking my VSL, and was doing well till today. And of course... It hits me on the day we drove 4 hours to Philidelphia for the day and to spend the night. I've went 5 times so far today which I have went like that before with an IBS episode, but now I'm having lots of M. There was some B too but I think that might have been from trying to hurry and go in stores. My tummy is a mess today. I haven't eaten much, ugh.. So discouraging. I'm hoping it's just the post infection IBS, but I haven't had any M like this before when I go lt off the vanco and didn't relapse. My tummy has been gurgling something terrible. I was really hoping this time going off the vanco would have done the trick since I'm pushing the pribiotics and did a nice long taper. Prayers or good vibes that I'm not relapsing again. This was suppose to be a good day of enjoying being out of town with my husband. This stuff always seems to hit at the perfect time doesn't it?!

[Bobbie]

saraht,
Sorry "the beast" ruined your day - again. It's ruined a lot of days/occasions formost of us on the site. I missed part of my younger son's graduation many years ago.

I looked at how long you've had C. diff. - you joined Nov.30, 2009. That is a long time to suffer.

When I was tapering C. diff. during my first 4 yr. bout of C. diff. (extenuating circumstances), I went 6 weeks twice completely off -- and then reoccurred. I was devastated.

Maybe it's time you consider another option besides meds.

First, have you tried pulsing? It helped several on this site. See CDI.

Second, see the list of docs. in the Doctors Forum. They are docs. people on this site recommend. There is also a list of docs. who do FMT's. It was not a miracle cure for me (altho it is for some), but I had C. diff. a very long time and am now older. It left me with IBS - but not as severely as other treatments I had. I thought it would be "icky" but it wasn't as bad as I thought.

See CDI - Three Day Rule and CDI - IBS to help determine whether it's a reoccurrence or "just" IBS. This isn't "medical" - just a rule of thumb.

Fingers crossed you are just having a "bad day."

[saraht]

Thanks guys. I had my first run in, in 09 for about 6-7 months from clindamycin. The primary I had just kept putting me on flagyl and I kept relapsing, so they sent me to a GI and I had 2 weeks of vanco and went into remission, wish it was that simple now. But I was good from 09 to 11, I had even taken keflex during this two year period of being c.diff free an was fine, I had actually had to be tested due to working in the healthcare field, my boss wanted to check and make sure, just because of dealing with elderly, which I was negative, and had worked closely with patients with c.diff. So then while pregnant in aug-sept 11 I yet again had to take clindamycin for an infection in my armpit that the dr refused to treat for over a month, my ob was worried that the infection could have went septic so he put me on extremely high doses. I relapsed as soon as I went off the meds for almost a year, then after I had my daughter we tried dificid, relapsed on it, then did my first vanco taper which made me go into remission. I was good for almost a year until I got a uti in May, even requested to take macrobid since it was one of the least likely offenders, and relapsed or reoccurred? a month later. I think in that years time my gut flora never got back to normal. I was actually just starting to feel more normal when it happened. And I've been dealing ever since.

I relapsed while on a 3 month taper in augs this year, then did another longer taper, and seen a dr that does FMTs to see if he though I needed one, which he didn't think I did, so he told me to continue the taper, and if I relapsed again, to get another test, then he would "consider" a transplant. He seemed more against them then for them, he said because I responded well to vanco? I could go a couple weeks almost symptom free then have an IBS episode.

It's not full out D, some have a little firmness, no yucky c.diff smell yet, some M and B (sorry for the TMI) like I said about the B when we first got here on our "relaxing day to get away from stress" I had to hurry in the restrooms so I might have strained too hard, I do have hemerroids that are inflamed too so I'll def keep an eye on it and call my ID Dr Monday. I'm not having any pain though but I've been down this road before. Thanks for always being here, you all. I don't know where I would be without you guys. I'm so appriciative of each and every one of you.

[getwellsoon]

After my taper with Vanco I too developed M. I had a horrible case of IBS and Mucous Colitis. It felt like I still had CDiff. Dr. told me to take Metamucil and I did along with Pepto, Questran, anti nausea meds and a few more to control the symptoms. It took a few months but the M slowly disappeared. I also got hemmorhoids from cdiff. Going a lot will irritate them. Still, if you see b sometimes better to check with Dr. I went to a Colo- Rectal Dr. and he diagnosed the mucous colitis. My GI just kept telling me not to worry about it but of course thats easy for him to say. Anyway my point is you aren't going to feel well for a while, it takes time after this infection. I hope you can feel better for the rest of your trip. Carol

[Bobbie]

Thx. for the thx. - always appreciate. Get through the holidays and then talk to your GI and/or ID about "a plan." You've suffered long enough.

Do try the VSL3. It is supposed to be one of the better antibiotics. I was able to tolerate a Z-pak twice for pneumonia while taking VSL3. It is expensive, however, and I've never found the manufacturer helpful. (At one time they were supposed to have a doctor who would answer any questions. In a pig's ear!) Be sure and take it as far from Vanco. as possible.

I agree - I am so sick of seeing docs. - who never, of course, agree with each other - even if they are in the same field.

Prayers and good vibs.

[saraht]

Made it back home without going, tried to sleep most of the way so I wouldnt be uncomfortable with that urge to go. Seem to be doing better today, no more B, and on and off M. Is it possible for something I ate to start up a nasty IBS episode?

I've only went twice today which is great, considering, but I haven't ate much today. No D, just looser. Lots of back pain today, and tummy cramps, haven't been able to move around too much, I'm going to try the heating pad later. I'm wondering if maybe it was something I ate even though I watch everything I eat, and being so newly post-antibiotic. Like you said Bobby, its all trial and error, even with food. I find it so strange that something you can be ok with one day can hit you wrong the next, and eating with c.diff is like learning how to eat food all over again. Every time I go into remission and have another occurrence, symptoms are different. I mean there is the general symptoms, but last time I had more nausea, this time, more back pain.

Bobby you are so right about the company that makes VSL. I called with a shipping question, nothing complicated, but a legitimate question, because of where I live. They spoke as if I was bothering them, or asked something stupid. They didn't have very good customer service either time I called, but I was amazed by how they shipped it. I was expecting a little container with a little icepack. It came in a box, in a foam cooler, with two huge ice packs, and bubble wrap. Looked like something you would carry a human organ in, lol.

I will keep you all posted with how things go, hopefully its just an episode and not the dreaded relapse. I can be so discouraging when you are trying to help yourself so much, but it seems like nothing is helping at all.

[Bobbie]

It probably is possible it might be something you ate. Difficult to tell with C. diff. or IBS. That is what makes the infection so darn unsettling. You learn to live day to day (sometimes hour to hour) but it isn't fun. If you continue to have doubts, I'd be retested but best to be off meds. 7 to 10 days.

[naaple]

Hey Saraht,

I got the vsl as well, about a week ago. I was feeling really well taking it. I'm taking my last dose of my vanco taper tonight and I feel terrible. Stomach a mess all day, I've been to the bathroom 5 times. Got a trip planned in 2 days, I hope this doesn't wreck it! Seems like we are going through something similar. Hope you are doing better and this vsl makes a difference!

[saraht]

I've been on the vsl for 5 days now, I know it takes time. I am still feeling pretty terrible. Terrible tummy cramps, right side back pain, looser BM's, and M, that urge to go. I am trying to wait it out. Still no full out D. I am on day 3 of feeling terrible, which comes and goes. If this is post infectious IBS, then boy I have it bad. I mean I have been having IBS issues since the c.diff started and being on the vanco. I am just hoping things settle down soon, and that I am not going into a relapse. It's terrible that these things have the same traits.

I pray everything settles down for you, and you can enjoy your trip!!! Have a good time!!!

[AllisS]

Probiotics can cause GI symptoms in some people. You may want to stop taking them for a few days and see if you feel better.

[saraht]

Thank you, AlliS!
I'm going to try that. I'm starting to have full out D again. So even if it's not the VSL, it's not helping as far as the cdiff, or post infectious IBS. I'm going to stop and give it a couple days. All trial and error. Whew... I'm exhausted!

I was literally just doing some forum reading on others who have this problem with VSL. Apparently it can cause D, and cramping, as well as other symptoms. The forum I was reading it on, had one person who said they contacted a pharmaceutical company and asked questions about it. And the REP said this

"The side effects are induced due to 'shifting' gut ecology, and should only last 1-2 weeks."
The person experiencing the symptoms asked why VSL has been the only probiotic to cause this for them, and the rep said "because there is no other probiotic on the market that comes to VSLs therapeutic effectiveness."
Like the person on the forum said maybe a marketing hype by the rep. Anyone else hear of this "shifting gut ecology?"

Makes me tempted to call VSL myself and see if I can get some answers from someone. I've searched around a couple more pages but haven't found too much on it causing these symptoms other than on a couple forums. I'll stop it, and see how things go.