Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

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Benh
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Benh » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:13 pm

Ah, thanks Roy. I missed that for sure. I have been a little absent here for a variety of reasons but will be back more regularly and read more carefully. To the OP, I wish you the best but know that many drs have done more refined and perhaps better studied tapers but if it works, I would be very happy for you.

Machaon
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:20 pm

Last night at 10 pm, after two days without Vancomycin, I had my first solid potty in 3½ months. That was since I contracted this awful infection on April 18th. I had another solid potty today at 12:30 pm. My strength and overall health has basically been restored. I suffer from no ill effects from the C-diff.

Today I take Vancomycin at 5 am and 5 pm followed by another two days without Vancomycin.

Roy said: "Hopefully it works but it's not advisable to do this without medical supervision."

Roy is absolutely correct! Doing this basically on my own has my anxiety level quite high. The end result, if I am wrong, could be quite bad.

I'll explain what happened. My doctor had discussed a taper if my C-diff relapsed. At the end of 10 days of a 14 day Vancomycin rx, I did not want to wait for a relapse because I had suffered so horribly for two months from C-Diff, so I called and left a message with a nurse asking the doctor for Vancomycin again "so I could do a taper" without waiting for a relapse. He prescribed it. I think the nurse didn't mention "tapering" and that he assumed I relapsed and prescribed another 14 days of Vancomycin. I picked it up, but I did not get any taper instructions.

Then, while researching FMT, I came across Dr. Bakken's Vancomycin protocol. I figured that, there are so many different tapering protocols, why not follow Dr. Bakken's? So far, I am very pleased with the results.
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

grandma7
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby grandma7 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:49 pm

I started the tapering as I told you previously.I have finished the 14 days at4 a day,I am now on the twice a day for one week,then one capsule once a day for 7 days,then one capsule ever other day for 4 week. Wait to see if symptoms comeback within a couple of weeks.If so I have an appointment with a gastrointestinal doctor.
So far has been working.It has been over 2 weeks without the big D.I have my energy back.Feel great.
Hoping this will work.
Hope your tapering works for you.I still am careful of what I eat.

Machaon
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:20 pm

grandma7 wrote:
> So far has been working.It has been over 2 weeks without the big D.I have
> my energy back.Feel great.

Congratulations of the results so far. So glad that you are feeling great. That is wonderful!

Here's hoping you have a full and long lasting cure! :)
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

Machaon
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:40 am

Currently on Week 3-4 (July 29-Aug 12): 125mg vancomycin, two times for one day; followed by two days without vancomycin.

Loose stools several times a day. Not a surprise. My gut has been damaged by C-diff and I eat a diet, seven times per day, which includes three very large salads; a bowl of vegetables and high fiber cereal. I am not going to worry about loose stools as long as there is no diarrhea. I have looked up my type of diet on Google and am pleased to read about the link between diet and the rebuilding of gut flora.

In place of kefir, perhaps the combination of probiotics and diet will result in the same success that patients experienced with Dr. Bakken's tapering protocol?
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

NanciT
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby NanciT » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:05 pm

I have to say your diet is one I could not tolerate while either on Vanco or Dificid. My gut was upset most the time and I had to go easy.

Salad is especially harsh on the GI, maybe you should go easy on the diet a bit and she how you do

NanciT

Machaon
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:42 pm

I am willing to put up with a little potty discomfort, if the salads and veggies help to rebuild my good gut flora (I hope, I hope).

Dr. Bakken was a proponent of FMT. Back in 2011, Bakken researched two studies that showed fewer relapses when vancomycin was combined with probiotics when treating recurrent CDI patients (44.8% recurrence rate). Buts... when tapering vancomycin, combined with probiotics, the recurrence rate was 31%; and when pulsing vancomycin combined with probiotics, the recurrence rate was 14%!

I guess this motivated Dr. Bakken to change his approach to C-diff from FMT to treating his patients with a pulsed vancomycin combined with kefir.

I'm just hoping the my probiotics combined with my diet is going to result in a success.

An interesting finding: Recurrent CDI isn't always a result of reinfection with the same strain. In one case 6 of 18 recurrent patients (33%) were reinfected with a new strain! Goodness!

So far, things are going quite well, but will that be the case, one week or more after the end of the vancomycin pulsing???
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

NanciT
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby NanciT » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:13 pm

I do hope it works for YOU!!! We have MANY who have done great with a Vanco taper!! If not, on to Dificid.


Keep us updated!

NanciT

cnatra
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby cnatra » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:47 pm

Machaon,

You might consider backing off the " traditional " high fiber diet . It's definitely full of foods that are harder to digest and so likely harder on your colon.

Google resistant starches , Things like cooked and cooled potatoes and white beans help feed the good flora in your colon like Bacterides.

Potato flour and green banana flour too if you can find it.

Those should be easier to digest as well,

Something to consider ......


Good Luck !!!

Machaon
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:54 pm

Cnatra, If you want to see a grown, 73 year old man cry, take away my salads and veggies!

The only problem I've had is when I ate a lot of squash. It caused two days of painful IBS-C. Cut back on squash and everything is ok.

Thanks for the diet tips!
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

Machaon
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Posts: 170
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:05 pm

I am really thankful for what I have learned from this website. This website is a great source of information and anecdotal opinion regarding C-diff; and I commend and thank those who monitor and maintain the site.

I was first on flagyl for two weeks and relapsed. I then went on Vancomycin for two weeks. My doctor had told me that if I relapsed from the first round of Vancomycin, I would go on another round of it, with tapering. If I relapsed again, I could do FMT.

I did not want to wait until I relapsed from Vancomycin. I did not want to suffer from the ravages of C-diff again. That was too horrible! I also changed my mind and do not want to try FMT unless as a last resort because I do not want to introduce someone else's flora into my digestive system and possibly disrupt it, or negatively effect it.

So... on my own, I only went 10 days on my very first round of Vancomycin and then started Dr Bakken's tapering protocol. I called for and received another Vancomycin rx.

It seems to me that the more relapses, the more longer term nasty problems, so I wanted to immediately try tapering/pulsing. Multiple relapses probably cause more damage to the intestinal walls; causing longer recovery periods.

That's where I am now. Starting tomorrow, I start Week 5-6 (Aug 13-Aug 27): 125mg vancomycin, one time for one day; followed by two days without vancomycin, repeating. I am a little nervous about taking only one Vancomycin, but if that is what Dr. Bakken's very successful protocol calls for, I will comply and hope for the best.
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

OCmama
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby OCmama » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:18 pm

My daughter was successful with a vanco pulse/high probiotic regimen after she failed flagyl and then failed two weeks on Vanco.

The literature put the success rate of a vanco pulse after two failures at 40%. But I personally have heard a lot of success stories. As well my ID said his suggestion for my daughter's treatment would be Dificid, and if Dificid could not be prescribed he would suggest a Vanco pulse.

We had a different structure for her pulse, but I am glad you are feeling better and hope you keep posting your progress!

Bobbie
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Bobbie » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:28 am

Check,CDI -'there are several authorized methods of tapering and pulsing that have helped posters including two of our moderators.

Machaon
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Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby Machaon » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:06 pm

After I started only one vancomycin, followed by two days without, the roof fell in! Runny, urgent potties, sickly, weak, mental confusion, all of which kept getting worse!

I'm now on my second day of vancomycin every eight hours and feel much better. I'm going to look at the other tapering ideas, thanks. I kinda flunked Dr Bakken's tapering.

Plus... Gots an appointment next week with an infectious disease specialist.

Thanks for your concern and comments!!
Male, age 73. South Florida. Retired senior computer systems analyst and programmer.

30+ yrs of CHF, perm afib, extremely sensitive asthma, autoimmune. Ex C-diff?

Diet: 7 low cal meals, 1500 cals, 4 eggs per day, 3 large salads, cereal, yogurt, cheese

OCmama
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Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:44 pm

Re: Tapering 125mg Vancomycin for six weeks: q72hrs. (ref:Dr. Johan S. Bakken)

Postby OCmama » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:44 pm

I'm sorry to hear you are still not feeling well!

In my opinion you need an ID or a GI to supervise your treatment. You could be putting yourself at great risk (worsening C. diff infection, sepsis, VRE etc).


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