Spores

[trob25]

I always liked my GI's summary (and I think Fire's GI told him the same):
I'm paraphrasing..."The colon is THE stupidest organ in the human body. Once it's out of whack, it forgets everything. It has no memory of how and when it's supposed to work like other organs do. It doesn't respond properly to the usual stimuli anymore, and over-responds to stimuli it isn't supposed to. It retrains at it's own pace and of it's own volition".

Yes, that's a great comment! And good point about PI-IBS showing up as a result of other operations/diseases as well, I know my GI mentioned intestinal surgery being a rough one with PI-IBS for some people.

For the record, my case of C-Diff last exactly one month, that is, the active form. I was starting to have intestinal problems about 2-3 weeks before I developed C-Diff, so maybe it was longer then a month. Regardless, compared to some cases on here, I had it relatively mildly, cured with two rounds of Flagyl. Yet I'm on month 5 of PI-IBS.

Something else interesting tied into what feelinghopeful said earlier is that I was ok for about a month after the Flagyl, then the PI-IBS started badly in short bursts! Matches up with her theory about things getting worse after the antibiotics are gone and the intestines try to repopulate themselves.

[paulah]

When I had active cdiff and kept relapsing, i wondered, does the cdiff bacteria give off spores like a dandylion, where one bacteria produced MANY more spores? After searching many web sites , one explained it the best as......when the bacteria detects an antibiotic, it starts to create a protective coating around itself, thus it creates only one spore. It does not "lay eggs". Doctors don't really know, but this makes the most sende to me.

[feelinghopeful]

I know it's not like the dandelion scenario because very early on I pictured puffball mushrooms spurting spores into the air. I've been involved in micology for many years so that's naturally what I pictured. My boyfriend set me straight on that one. "Different kind of spores, sweetie".

Good question. This could be an aspect of C-Diff picked up early on (possibly even by a source that oversimplified C-Diff sporulation) and never revisited - "makes an indestructable egg", kind of thing. I carried this mental image forward because I've read that C-Diff can form more than one spore but I haven't always been selective about where I acquired information on the net - have become moreso. It's amazing how much stuff is misrepresented while dummying down for the public. Come to think of it, I do remember an image of a bacteria spurting out something, though, and it was in the context of sporulation... but where did I see that? Might not even have been CD, just something I erroneously connected when the information was overwhelming. I'm going to look into that now!

Great points about PI-IBS, Allison. Terrific descrition, too. I've found that I have to fight the tendency to be C-Diffcentric. How often I've read on other sites that somebody with IBS (and many other problems) eventually tested positive for C-Diff. It's happened so often that when I read symptoms I err on the side of too often thinking, "C-DIFF" when clearly that is not always the case. I guess it takes some distance from the disease to stop thinking that C-Diff is the cause of all the ills of the world.

[feelinghopeful]

Okay, here is one of the places I originally got the information. The minute I saw it I remembered. However! I also remember reading that C-Diff bacteria can produce more than one spore. Again, that part could be erroneous and is not important, really. Here's your answer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endospore

[feelinghopeful]

I wanted to add after reading my post back, when I said I read C-Diff bacteria can produce more than one spore I meant like maybe two, not hundreds! It must have been in a research paper. That's one reason (along with the visual I held in the back of my mind) why I maintained the impression that it didn't make a spore out of itself (which would limit it to one to one) but that it did in a sense produce and release a spore. When I first heard it was a spore forming bacteria I imagined clouds of spores, like with mushrooms, and that completely freaked me out. At least this scenario is somewhat containable, though, in its vegetative state the bacteria can split rather rapidly.

I've been wondering how long it takes for the bacteria to make a spore and I want to thank you for making me look back into it because that detail I had not remembered, that it takes 8 hrs. For some reason I find that comforting - like there might be a way to kill the bacteria before being able to complete the process. They look into drugs that don't cause sporulation but there also might be a method of killing it whereby it can't sporulate in time, too.

[Suezer]

Alot of great theorys and information from all posters here.

Can we at least safely assume that some (not usually all) spores are in fact eliminated through Bowel Movements. Or is it assumed they have some place to hide and avoid being cast out with the "poo"?

This brings to mind another question/suggestion. I have read of many relapsers here, who experienced either primarily watery bowel movements, or Constipation. This brings to mind the concept that perhaps these folk are/were not actively shedding spores through the illness/healing process as effectively as those who perhaps had many bowel movements whether they were solid or soft..ect. At least with some substance/regularity, I would think the adhesion of spores to traveling fecal matter would be greater. I am still somewhat new to all of this as well, but like everyone else here I am trying to understand the spore aspect of C Diff.

I didn't expect this thread to become such a great discussion, topic, but it really has alot of us thinking now! We can only learn more and more from each other.

[klt03301]

I asked my GI about shedding spores when I saw her last week. She couldn't answer the question and told me to ask my ID doc. I haven't seen my ID doc since April (thank God), so I doubt he'd appreciate a call from me about the quesiton of shedding spores. Would love to ask him, though, but I don't even know that he'd be able to answer the question. Spores are COMPLICATED. That's one thing about them that I'm pretty certain of!

Karen