I know this is a crazy question...

[iluvmydogs]

I know this might sound crazy, but is it possible to have C. Diff without diarrhea?

Here's my story: In 2004 I had C.Diff after a round of Cipro for a UTI. I was cured after 10 days of Flagyl and never had relapse. I have taken some antibiotics since I had C. Diff including Bactrim, Doxcycline, and Macrobid. I never had any relapses from any of them.

In July of this year, I had what I believed to be a stomach virus. I woke up one morning and had very watery yellow diarrhea (similar to C. Diff, it even smelled like it). I had a trip to go on so I took a lot of Immodium to hold off the diarrhea. I had diarrhea a few more times that day, but the next day I didn't have any more. I had not taken any antibiotics for at least 6 months prior to this. I still have not had any diarrhea, but my stomach has been pretty "off" ever since. I wake up in the morning with urgency to go w/ some cramping, but it is not diarrhea. It is solid, but comes out very easily like I have eaten a lot of fiber. After this started I even took a course of Bactrim (for a UTI) and still no diarrhea. Does anyone think it's possible that this is C. Diff? If it were, I would think the Bactrim would have brought it out. This is all just really strange since I have never had to have a bowel movement every single morning (except when I finished my course of Flagyl in 2004).

My doctor says I can't have C. Diff if I don't have diarrhea so they aren't willing to do any stool stamples or anything. If anyone has had a similar experience it would be great to hear from you!

[feelinghopeful]

It's my opinion from my experience with C-Diff and a variety of treatments and recurrences (along with the experience of others I've met) that bowel problems after C-Diff, especially in my case, were from varying degrees of C-Diff left in the bowel, especially in proportion with the good bacteria. Some people do have damaged bowels and this can take some time to heal but it seems to me that if you're feeling well on Vanco and for a while after stopping treatment and then start getting ill, or if you've had a stretch of feeling well and then suddenly feel C-Diffy again, the C-Diff bacteria might have something to do with it rather than it being a 'syndrom' of indeterminate cause. You can have some C-Diff without it causing problems. Many people live with it with no trouble. It's only when the balance is shifted too far in favor of C-Diff having its way that you start to have trouble. The list of ways in which C-Diff expresses itself is long and varried, even including constipation. The good bacteria is amazing in how it protects us from pathogens and the toxins from them.

If you really start to get ill, with a fever or diarrhea, do insist on a test but if your symptoms are truly minor, that PROBABLY means you have sufficient good bacteria to keep it in check. If this is the case, in my opinion, the best thing you can do for yourself is try to take care of yourself and feed your gut with good food, like soluble fiber which promotes bacteria growth. Antibiotics just start the cycle of killing off the good stuff all over again. I am trying to figure out if there is any way to feed the good bacteria without feeding C-Diff as well but you can't starve the good bacteria in your body and optimally take care of yourself. Yogurt and probiotics are good but they're not actually feeding your natural flora, they're supplementing it but it does not stick around. Probiotics cultured on foreign mediums (like milk) do not permanently move into your intestines, they are merely visitors. They can help but that is another very long issue. Eat soluble fiber to the extent that it doesn't bother your belly or that you can. I find any kind of beans with good brown rice (3gm of fiber per serving) with some chicken mixed in to be the best but a list of nutritious soluble fibers to promote colonic fermentation (feeds colon bacteria) which creates good acidity that C-Diff doesn't favor, is a place to start. But everybody is different. A diet like this might hurt your belly. I'm just writing from my experience. I'm afraid of prebiotics (as opposed to probiotics). I have this feeling that C-Diff may scoff this stuff up and that scares me.

The reason I feel C-Diff left behind is the cause of residual upset is, I did home infusions which left me with some IBS. Home infusions are terrific and work perfectly for some, my guess is they work best for people who's C-Diff is mostly proliferating near the last part of the colon. The natural flora one is transplanting will probably not get all the way to where the colon begins. So after the home version I was pretty darned good but had issues. I think I had C-Diff all through my colon, not just at the end, including near the beginning of the colon where the appendix is. I wound up having an infusion by a doctor who gets the donor material all the way up. After this one I didn't have much trouble at all and am now, knocking on wood, over three weeks later, left with absolutely no IBS. I never had any, just a few days in there with some looseness that could have been anything. So that is why I think some cases of residual IBS is C-Diff, since it presents the way Borody describes some less debilitating cases of C-Diff. I have also noted that a larger proportion of people I've met who've had the transplant via a naso tube get better much faster and without residual issue more often than those I've met who do home infusions. Though some who do it at home do great. Again, we're all unique.

The bottom line is, you have to take care of yourself after C-Diff. You can't, like I did after the first transplant, just go about eating pizza all the time, etc. You have to help your flora get healthy and a proper diet can help. If the C-Diff gets out of control again, you can wind up back where you started. But again, we are all different.

I hope you feel better and this is just a glitch in your recovery.

Sorry for such a long reply. I think about this a lot for some reason. I really want to understand as much of this as I can because I want to be able to knowledably deal with anything that this disease throws at me.

[fire7163]

Hi there:

You can tell your Doctor that they are wrong and I'm living proof. I never had copiuos "d" just loose stools everytime that I tested positive which is over 6 times. You've got to remember that there are many strains of D-diff which affect and present differently in many folks.
Refer your Doctor to this site and request that he order a stool sample. He's got nothing to lose but his pride. You'll find that most MD's are still on the downside of the learning curve with C-diff. Here's a chance for education.


Fire

[iluvmydogs]

Thank you both for your responses. I just find it strange that I have gone four years without any residual issues from C. Diff and now this has come out of nowhere. I see my regular physician in October and I will talk to him about it then. I have been seeing all these others doctors in the same practice (since my doctor has a three month waiting list) and none of them know my situation like my regular physician. He is the one that diagnosed me with C. Diff immediately when I had it in 2004.

[feelinghopeful]

I should have mentioned that when I first showed signs of c-diff it was exactly as you describe -unexplained diarrhea for a few days and thought it was the flu. I went to the doctor for a c-diff test only because my husband had had it in 2005. She said "you can't catch c-diff, everyone has it in them and you get it if you take antibiotics". I actually had taken antibiotics months earlier (in fact I'd forgotten) and the correlation wasn't obvious. The test was negative, the D resolved, but I had more than one movement in the AM for a long time. It was like you say, softer than normal. I called it spongy. But I shortly had no cramps or anything, just going more than once (usually three times) in the AM and it was "spongy". I also didn't know the c-diff smell specifically like I do now. I don't recall if I had that. My guess is the condition would have resolved itself had I known for sure and taken better care of myself. I didn't know much about c-diff yet. I didn't get debilitating D until a series of misfortunes occurred requiring two antibiotics months apart strongly correlated to C-Diff. My natural flora wanted to recover from the earlier assaults, right up to the very last one, clyndamycin. When I think of the antibiotics I took between coming into contact with spores and actually getting full blown c-diff, I cannot imagine how my body hung in there. The spectrum of antibiocs I took in 2006 and early 2007 was like pouring agent orange down my throat.

Here's one list of ways c-diff can present but there's another I cannot find that has some conditions not listed here:

http://www.cdiff.nl/index.php?page=the-diseases

Also, if the D resolves itself, that doesn't mean you will go back to normal immediately. But again, as everybody says, not a doctor. A test is always good so you know what you're dealing with. I just HATE the idea of taking more antibiotics.

[carrie]

iluvmydogs do remember that IBS like symptoms can occur after any gasteritis upset. I had what I think was the norovirus twice in six months(there were two outbreaks at my office at that same time.). I've had IBS symptoms ever since. I believe it also left me more susceptible to c-diff. I got it after a round of antibiotics, that was 2 or 3 years after I was diagnosed with IBS. I had never had any bowel issues previous to the onset of IBS.
Maybe after this recent stomach bug your gut has gone back into protective mode and is just not as relaxed as it use to be and that will result in motility issues. At work now as soon as a GI bug is detected I'm sent home immediately and I can not return until all is clear. I have very understanding employers. Don't forget your brain is also communicationg with your bowels and if you are feeling anxious it is going to stay in defensive mode which will cause motility issues - damn anxieites! I thick c-diff has left us all with a bit of panic thinking we may have to go through it again.

[cindym]

There have been people that have had horrible constipation with cdiff and no other symptoms. Most doctors say only worry about cdiff if it is watery however to the extreme with constipation can be just as bad. I believe the poster who dealt with horrible constipation and did test positive was Shelly.