C. diff - hygiene - healthy people . . .

[Judy M.]

I'm a bit confused about something. I'm reading about all the precautions those of us with C. diff should be taking, including separating laundry, using bleach to clean, etc. But I also know that the "bug" remains dormant inside healthy people. So I'm just wondering why we have to be so diligent about the hygiene aspect (aside from the logical washing hands well, etc.) if we're surrounded by healthy people.

Thanks for your input!

[Lauren]

Judy M. - honestly, I'm with you on this one. In hospitals, where people are not healthy and are often on antibiotics, I think it is important to deal with the environment. At home, where most folks are healthy and would be as likely to get c-diff digging in the garden (not very) as from you (also not very), I personally would not go the bleach route. I think I'd worry more about chlorine poisoning than c-diff spores.

I had c-diff for two years myself, and neither my husband or small son caught it. I didn't know to do any extra cleaning, as at the time, nobody believed you could catch c-diff from other people outside of a hospital setting.

There have been more cases of "community acquired" c-diff in the media recently, but it's hard to know if there really are more or if it's just getting more attention.

If cleaning more makes you feel better about protecting your family, by all means do it. If you think it probably wouldn't do much good or isn't necessary, you are very possibly correct.

[Judy M.]

Thanks for your quick response. One of the reasons I asked is that we're going to be visiting my aunt and uncle next week. We're traveling light and will be doing laundry there. Since there are only four of us, we will most likely be "mixing" the laundry. It suddenly occurred to me that perhaps this wasn't a good idea. But then I thought about it . . . and wrote my message. :-)

Thanks again!

[cryingsilly]

I personally do not seperate laundry... but wash in hot temps. I do bleach the bathroom and toilet OFTEN.

My only concern with the healthy people is... what if they do aquire the spore from me, only to have it stay dormant in their body, until they have to take an antibiotic for some reason.

I think I probably aquired c. diff long before symptoms became apparent. They only became apparent when I took clindamycin.

I work in the health care field. I am a CNA and worked for a time in a nursing home, but also I was in the hospital for major surgery with a weeks stay.

Not sure where I picked it up, but either one of those was months and months ago. Only when I took the clindamycin did the c. diff have an opportunity to grow.

[Judy M.]

I personally do not seperate laundry... but wash in hot temps.

How do you handle clothing that shouldn't be washed in hot water?

My only concern with the healthy people is... what if they do aquire the spore from me, only to have it stay dormant in their body, until they have to take an antibiotic for some reason.

That leads me to another question then: If you have the C. diff in your system, won't there be spores also?

My experience was much like yours. I was in the hospital and on clindamycin for a week. My symptoms began two days before I went home. I asked if I should be tested (although I didn't know for what at that time!) and was told, "You know -- antibiotics often cause D." They may have been negligent in not testing me, but it probably wouldn't have made too much difference beyond my getting treated sooner (or perhaps having a "lighter case" of C. diff colitis???). It was almost a week later that I was on Flagyl, then relapsed, and am now on a combo of Flagyl and Vancomycin. I was on IV and then liquids when I went home (I had surgery for a Zenker's diverticulum) -- it probably didn't help much that I wasn't eating "real food."

Thanks for your input!

[Christina]

If you have C-diff in your system yes you would have spores but not everyone has C-diff in their systems. Only a small percentage of the population carries it naturally.The rest have to acquire a spore somewhere by ingesting it. The spores lie dormant in the body but when awaken by an antibiotic they "hatch" and grow bacteria. It is the bacteria that makes you sick not the actual spores. When the bacteria is under attack by Vanco, Flagyl or good healthy flora they go back to the spore state and we are no longer sick.

My son spent two years on some of the worst C-diff offending antibiotics continuously and never came down w/c-diff therefore I'm guessing he does not carry it naturally inside him. I never knew at that time about probiotics, etc. so he was not under any type of "protection". Since he lived in the house w/ me for the year and a half I had c-diff there is no way of telling now whether he has ingested a spore until he takes antibiotics and then waiting to see if he comes down w/c-diff. So far he has been on two since and has been fine. I did bleach down the bathroom but only after a relapse. Once things were under control I was more relaxed and we really only focused on hand washing. I also washed my clothes separately but not at the beginning. I honestly don't know if it helped but it did make me feel better.

This is a great story:When I went to have my last IVIG it was during a very bad relapse. It was not planned this way. It just happened. I was put in a room by myself at the transfusion center with this disgusting metal toilet that folded under the sink. Real gross! Anyway, my son who is only 11 was the only one not afraid of me when I had to run to the toilet which was about 10 times in 2 hours. Everyone else ran out of the room but he stayed right there next to me, handed me the good old Desitin, and the Gatorade for afterwards. He told me "Mom, I am not afraid and I'm going to help you". Like I said he has been on antibiotics since and has been perfectly fine. He's a great kid and would you believe he wants to be an ID when he grows up. He came home crying the other day because he got a C+ on a science test and he was afraid he would not be able to get into medical school now!

All that being said I wouldn't get to overly concerned about precautions as long as hand washing is the #1 priority. Everyone in my household has been fine.

[cryingsilly]

Christina!

What a wonderful mother you must be to be raising such a loving, caring, conscientious child!

It brought tears to my eyes.

You truly are blessed.

Darlene

[Judy M.]

If you have C-diff in your system yes you would have spores but not everyone has C-diff in their systems. Only a small percentage of the population carries it naturally.

Gee, haven't I read that. What I understood was that C. diff bacteria is found normally in healthy and ill people alike but that it becomes a problem when there's an imbalance between "good" and "bad" bacteria. In my case, clindamycin killed the "good" bacteria, leaving the C. diff to take over.

One concern I have is that I read the other day that Flagyl and/or Vancomycin interfere with the "good work" that probiotics do. Do you (or anyone else who might be reading this!) know anything about that?

Thanks again!

[Nancy1]

That's why it's important to space probiotics as far apart from Flagyl or vanco as you can. I took all my probiotics in the middle of the time between vanco doses.

[Christina]

Here Judy. The first line "What is C-diff" explains percentages. Also, if you read Dr. Borody's article on the site it states c-diff spores have to be acquired via oral route. I believe it's only around 3% of adults who actually carry the bacteria naturally. Hope this helps.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/954992292.html

A good source of info. is also available on Up to Date if your willing to pay for it. I think I pay 45 dollars every three months (can't remember exact $ amount) or so to get the latest professional level up dates on C-diff. I then print out the whole package so I have it for reference if need be.

PS - I also ask my GI Dr. a lot of questions.

[whitepine]

Good info.

I wonder what percentage of animals carry c.difficile spores around, and also what strains/toxins? If animals go on antibiotics, can they get c.diff too?

I always bleach everything...and am neurotic about it. I spray the toilet, the doorknobs, light switches and wipe with Bounty and flush it! I always wear underwear and got white and bleach everything! I used to wear the same pair of jeans 2 days in a row pre-c.diff, now I wash it all in hot water.

[Christina]

Laura,

There was an article a while back on therapeutic dogs in hospitals which were found to be carriers of c-diff. You may want to check in media reports as there may be info. in the article on %'s. I do know once last year when my dog was vomiting and had diarrhea they tested her for c-diff which came out negative. As a precaution they put her on a ten day course of our good old dreaded Flagyl. I felt so bad her. The drug form hell has the same bad effects on animals as it does people!

[Bobbie]

Thx. Christina. Posted hyperlink in FAQ-Diagnosis & Symptoms; Also Recurrent vs Relapsing

I've read the percentage of people who "carry" C. diff. bacteria is 3% to 5%.

I took antibiotics for years -- usually once or twice a year for sinus infections in my late 40's. (Had also taken them for bronchitis in the past.) I was fine -- until I took Vantin -- followed by 4 yrs. of C. diff. & many changes in my life. Vantin is now rarely used. Believe it's a 3rd or generation cephlasporin. I think Clindamycin still holds the all-time record for C. diff. but am not sure. Levaquin contributed to my second bout of C. diff. 2 yrs. later. My son had C. diff. after Amoxicillin & again (6 yrs. later) after 3 rounds of ERYC (ertho.).

Everyone who has had C. diff. once needs to be careful about taking antibiotics again if they contributed to it the first time. Unfortunately, sometimes they are necessary. I survived a Z-pak for pneumonia last November without C. diff..My son has been able to tolerate PenVK, a Z-pak once, ERYC several times, and one round of Doxy. Some on this site have been able to take antibiotics without a problem although others have contacted C. diff. again.

It is my uneducated, unmedical opinion that if you can afford anbiotics for as long as possible, you might be able to tolerate them again over a short span. (Unsubstaniated, unproven, don't quote me.)

[poltroon]

I know c diff is found in horses and has caused similarly dangerous infections in the horse after a course of antibiotics.

[Connie]

I have to go with the must-not-be-that-contageous-if-you're-healthy theory. I have scooped the poop, rinsed the underwear, cleaned the toilet, etc, etc, for weeks both times my son has had it. I'm not too paranoid about cleaning, bleaching, or using hot water, and neither his dad nor I have ever developed it.