CDiff without a prior stay in a hospital - rare?

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dontwantCDiff
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CDiff without a prior stay in a hospital - rare?

Postby dontwantCDiff » Wed May 02, 2007 7:19 pm

I have read through a ton of posts on this forum and appreciate the time that every has spent here filling in all of the gaps.

One thing I am curious about though is if the majority of people with Cdiff get it after a hospital stay or whether this doesn't really make a difference.

In a lot of the posts I have read it seems that in fact most people do get it after a stay in the hosptal/ER.

Thanks for the input.

Sheila1
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Postby Sheila1 » Wed May 02, 2007 7:51 pm

You either don't have cdiff or you do...and there's really no telling unless you take an antibiotic (or are a carrier, in which case the antibiotic probably won't effect you). Some of us had low level cdiff prior to an antibiotic and were misdiagnosed with IBS (I did and was). It's not the antibiotic that give it to you, you have to have acquired somewhere beforehand.

I'm curious, how is you are even aware of cdiff? Most people aren't, except nurses and doctors and even they don't know much in alot of cases. I'd never even heard of it until I got sick. Maybe I missed something in an earlier post of yours. Is there a reason you feel you may have acquired cdiff somewhere?

Lots of discussion on antibiotics going right now in the forums....as Christina said in another post, sometimes antib. are really needed, and definitely should be taken. Trying the most narrow spectrum is best (ie. pennicillin VK) but they don't work for all infections, sometimes it really is necessary to take a broad spectrum antibx. Clindamycin is really not a 'bad' antibx, per se, but it's use should be limited to necessity (it is somtimes necessary for certain infections that aren't controlled by other types of antibx.; same for cipro) It is the unnecessary and excessive use of antibx. that is a problem.

It's good to be cautious of antibx. and to ask the doc if 'this' is the most narrow spectrum possible for whatever problem you have - to avoid them entirely when absolutely needed could cost a person their life.

Those of us who have had cdiff are generally 'paranoid' of taking another antibx. but it's a pretty rational irrationality :) We would all take another, and have, if we had to.

Fear not, do what is necessary but not more than is necessary.
~Sheila

dontwantCDiff
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Postby dontwantCDiff » Wed May 02, 2007 8:50 pm

I think I learned about CDiff a few months ago when a doctor prescribed Avelox for a sinus infection and I googled it and saw that it caused stomach upset...etc I then found a story linking CDiff to IBS (in that CDiff can cause it)

If I hadn't had IBS for so many years I probably wouldn't have given it another thought. It was such a mystery to a 9yr old me and my parents... and a misery for the next 10-12 years. I have been free of IBS for the past 6 years or so and I never figured out what caused it nor what cured it so have been a bit paranoid.

thanks for everyone's help... I am feeling a bit less nervous now.

Christina
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Postby Christina » Thu May 03, 2007 3:12 am

Most people don't know exactly where they picked up the actual spore but it is almost always an antibiotic that sets of the infection. I believe I posted this to you in another question of yours recently in the past few days.
I had not been in a hospital prior to having C-diff except back in 1995 and 1998 to have my children. This is called a community acquired infection. Seems like most but not all of us here on the site have acquired C-diff this way. C-diff is becoming more and more prevalent this way although hospital acquired is still the #1 way to get it as of right now.

Sheila1
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Postby Sheila1 » Thu May 03, 2007 6:06 am

dontwantCDiff,

It is much more likely that you had something other than IBS at such a young age (it's possible but rare). Unless you were tested for all the common parasites and other bacteria, and they were all ruled out. If you Google "common human parasites" and "common human harmful bacteria" you will see there is a veritable league of things that could have caused IBS type symptoms. And they are all common, even though we hate to think of any of them as 'common.'

It is good to be aware, but stressing over 'what might happen' won't do your body any good and can, in fact, bring on symptoms all by itself.

Take a day at a time - and again, take what's necessary but not more than is necessary.

Let us know how you do!
~Sheila

joy240
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Acquiring Cdiff

Postby joy240 » Thu May 03, 2007 7:27 pm

I seem to be a bit confused about this entire Cdiff thing...I know a lot more than I should...however if you look back in history...It is known that babies are born with a tolerable amount of cdiff in the underdeveloped colon...and it is not something that you can just pick up any old where?????? It may be picked up from another infected individual and then the antibiotics set it off...or it may be the stripping of the colons normal flora via antibiotic...It is my understanding though that all beings have the potential to have this infection...If you look at the history of this "SUPERBUG" iwhich is only the term used because of the uncleanly situations that most hospital employees create...and for some reason these uncleanly workers spread this bug like a wildfire!!!! however the first known cases were newborns back in the late 1800s, early 1900s....perhaps not entitled C-diff, but later was given that name via a difficult bug to get rid of
joy

MaryT
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Postby MaryT » Thu May 03, 2007 7:57 pm

I don't know if I had cdiff in my system already when I got sick, or just picked up too much of it when I got sick. But when I got sick I hadn't been in a hospital and hadn't taken an antibiotic in over six years. I have no idea where I got it, but I obviously didn't have enough good bacteria to prevent my getting sick from it.

Sheila1
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Postby Sheila1 » Fri May 04, 2007 6:04 am

Joy,

There are some major differences in yesteryear's strains and today's strains. There are thousands of strains of cdiff; the Superbugs are called that because they are resistant to all antibiotics except Vanco, some are even resistant to Flagyl and reports state there isn't a 'classified' resistance yet to Vanco, but there have been a few cases reported that were. Also there are some new strains that are putting out significantly more toxins in addition to a new third toxin being identified. (same with the other Superbugs, they've become resistance to former treatments).

70-75% of babies do have cdiff and it's assumed they don't get sick because their colons don't have toxin receptors at that age; and if they don't have to take any antibiotics then they don't cause the cdiff to sporify (it remains bacteria), so they eventually shed all the bacteria out and have no remaining cdiff. We get sick and take antibiotics which causes the bacteria to send out 'armor' coated spores that nothing kills, and the spores remain with us, so we don't shed it all and must be careful about taking antibx in the future.

Animals can harbor cdiff (common in horses, dogs, cats) and it can live in the soil over 2 yrs, etc. etc. But again, the bacteria has gone from a bayonet-carrying-marching-army to a nuclear-weapon-carrying army and the defences we have available are little. The old bacterias in general would make the majority of people a little 'sick' then be shed and that was that. Not so anymore.

The spread of it can not entirely be blamed on poor hygiene by healthcare workers. Community acquired Cdiff is becoming quite common now and that's because people in general do not use good hygiene (how many times have you seen a lady leave the public restroom without washing their hands? or just run them under water a second or wash them but then touch the dirty handles and door knobs, etc?). I did not get mine from a hospital. I got mine becuase someone who had it did not practice good hygiene. It's easy to pick up. for example: perhaps I went to a restaurant and picked up a fork, that the server with cdiff and unwashed hands, put on the table and then used my hand to eat a french fry and swallowed a few spores. Alot of the hospital spread is due as much to poor cleaning of the rooms as nurse's hands - if the patient had thoroughly washed their hands it might not be on the bedrails and phones and the next patient might not get it at all. In addition, studies have found that doctors are the one's least likely to wash their hands between patients (only 20-30% were found to wash hands between patients!) yet nurse's are getting the really bad rap for spreading bacteria.

Dr. Fordtran's article explains the history and differences real well, check it out in the FAQ, Articles by Experts section.

It's a tough bug these days, and we're all susceptible to any bacteria or virus out there. We can give ourselves immense protection by personal hygiene but we can't live in a bubble either. We've kind of gotten ourselves into this mess too with antibotics, antibacterial soaps and cleaners, etc. - we've demanded our anti-everythings and now those bugs are growing resistant to our arsenal.
~Sheila

joy240
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Shelia

Postby joy240 » Fri May 04, 2007 10:36 pm

Shelia
I would like to know where you get all of your information...I guess also I would like to know if you are a doctor???? It is kinda like which came first the chicken or the egg???? So which came first the nosocomial or the community aquired?????
joy

Bobbie
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Postby Bobbie » Fri May 04, 2007 11:07 pm

Joy,
C. diff. can be acquired in the community or in hospital (or nursing home) settings. Previously, it was considered a disease of the old, and otherwise ill people who are in a hospital or nursing home. Not so, today. Many of those on the site acquired C. diff. in the community.

I am sure Sheila would agree that she is not a C. diff. expert. She is not a doctor or in the medical field. She enjoys doing medical research, is good at it, likes to help people, and we are grateful for her work on the site.

Remember, however, any post on this site is an opinion only. Even research is subjective. Who did the study,? Was there a control group? Was there an ulterior motive, etc.?

There are no C. diff. experts on this site (except for the articles by Dr. Borordy, Dr. McDonald, & several others in the medical field -- posted with their permission). The rest of us are all victims of a strange disease that is often unpredictable. It's one strange "bug." This site's goal is to provide support -- not advice -- & inform you of new treatments & media news.

We can tell you the basic history of C. diff. and what worked for us, but again, it's opinion only. Again, not fact but opinion. The only thing that most agree on is "Good hygiene is the best preventative."

"Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" is a question that will never be answered with certainty -- in other subjects besides C. diff. And it isn't important. What is important is publicizing & controlling this disease & supporting each other.

End of lecture.


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