Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

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Believe
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Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby Believe » Tue May 18, 2021 6:32 pm

Hello friends, I'm having serious anxiety. Just tested positive for c.diff toxin B DNA, after 3 years recovery -- yet, stool normal. Asymptomatic. Feel pretty good. Other than occasional brief bout of loose stool, fixed by a couple of doses of Pepto-Bismol, or lactose-free kefir, stool is normal.

If I get into trouble, it's due to having indulged too much dark chocolate, or drank too much decaf or coffee. Dumb choices I know I should avoid. I was thinking it was just occasional IBS; but instead, do DNA toxins "turn on and off" sometimes? Am I danger to family and friends? Do I need to be bleaching again? Does a positive DNA test mean I'm infectious? Or does it mean I am a "carrier"? Might it be leftover from the original infection 3 years ago, or does it mean it's a new one (God knows where I could have picked it up, I'm mostly at home)?

I'm spooked. I swear that I read somewhere that after treating an infection, the residual DNA finally disappears - after about six months! But to still have this showing up, three years later? Maybe the DNA is not considered a worry, but a leftover artifact of the disease, and can always be "there?" I am so confused.

DNA test results positive for c.diff toxin B 2.78e3 (normal would be <1.00e3). Would this number be considered low-grade, and maybe that's why I have no symptoms?

Granted, this is a very sensitive test, took a month to return. It's not a quick assay (who knows if the DNA would have shown up on the usual, quick turnaround local test?). I recall that 3 years ago, both toxins A + B were present on the rapid test my local doctor set me up with.

Reason I got this test is because my functional medicine doctor (a trained internist) ordered it as part of a comprehensive gut checkup. Test is "GI Map DNA Stool Analysis" by Diagnostic Solutions Lab. He will be planning to treat it with a combination of small amounts of antimicrobial Pepto-Bismol, Saccharomyces Boulardi, Biocidin, I think maybe Olivirex or such, and some sort of other probiotic. I recall someone on the forum mentioning her doctor treated her low-grade infection similarly, if I'm not mistaken, using a run of small amounts of Pepto.

An aside, but I also had a separate SIBO breath test, which was positive for hydrogen-dominant; we are treating that with some of the herbals and probiotics listed above, as well as the FODMAP diet. It's been a month since starting, and I feel much better. I got in trouble back in February after a crazy dinner one night, where I dumped a load of crushed red hot pepper on one slice of pizza! It threw my system into a tizzy, after a long stretch of normalcy. Never again!
Last edited by Believe on Wed May 19, 2021 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Believe
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby Believe » Tue May 18, 2021 9:36 pm

Me again, with interesting info just found online.

Literature for Diagnostic Solutions Labs GI Map: "Asymptomatic patients may not need treatment. In asymptomatic patients with positive toxins A and/or B, the genes are likely not 'turned on,' and thus not causing disease. It is still prudent to avoid antibiotics in these patients to prevent CDAD. Consider antimicrobial herbal formulas, which can suppress C. diff without activating toxin production. Consider Saccharomyces boulardii, high dose probiotics, broad-spectrum antimicrobial herbs ..."

beth22
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby beth22 » Wed May 19, 2021 3:21 pm

I had basically the same scenario as you. I had SIBO - tested very high on breath test originally treated with Xifaxan, which brought it down, but did not clear it. I had positive DNA test for c diff that showed positive for over two years. It began after I was given antibiotics IV in the hospital. However, I did not take antibiotics to treat the c diff and just took Pepto when needed, although after the initial bout of D, I really did not have any. The hospital followed that PCR test up with an EIA that showed no active infection. I was told that I was a carrier and that is why the test will show positive for me.

You can ask about doing a follow-up EIA test to see if you have toxins and an active infection if you are concerned, but if you don't have symptoms, that is probably not necessary.

Believe
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby Believe » Thu May 20, 2021 9:37 pm

Oh Beth, thank you *so* much for writing!! You made my day, my night! You provided a lot of clarity, and good info to keep in mind about the EIA test. It is everything to speak up and be heard.

It is the worst feeling to think you're contagious. I have been worried about it, despite having no symptoms. But I told myself, Look. You're no different today than you were yesterday ... you simply learned some news. It was startling to learn I'm a carrier, after three years thinking it was gone. But in looking again at the literature, I had an epiphany: if being an asymptomatic carrier were a contagious state, they'd definitely want to treat it!

Originally, I had toxins A & B, but now, it's just B. So at least, the "A" is eradicated! Silver lining?

Thanks again, Beth! Cheers

roy
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby roy » Fri May 21, 2021 12:11 pm

You will have both toxins! plus some others as well!
They only tested for the DNA of c.diff thats capable of producing toxin B, the PCR test does not look for the actual toxin.

C.diff is a natural gut flora that MANY people carry inside them.
It's not a disease.
Its POTENTIALY a disease if it overgrows because something disturbs your gut flora balance.
Theres loads of other POTENTIALY harmfull bacteria in your gut as well, Staph, Strep, E.coli just to name a few.
Theres also at least 27 types of c.diff (probably more) and many are harmless.
The worry your having is exactly why the guidlines say dont test unless symptoms indicate disease.
Only ever treat symptoms and NEVER treat test results.
Those tests that list gut bacteria in healthy people are almost useless.
Everyones different and your "normal" includes c.diff.

Believe
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby Believe » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:53 am

Roy, thanks Kindly for this great explanation! How did I never see this before? I really appreciate this excellent advice.

In health,
b.

ajml13
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby ajml13 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:14 pm

So, if someone is positive for toxins but no symptoms, are they considered contagious?
35 yo F Diagnosed with Cdiff Sept 2021.
Completed 1 round of Vanco 10 days, 1 round of Dificid 10 days. EIA test came back positive for A+B toxins after Dificid.

roy
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Re: Alarmed: positive test Toxin B, 3 yrs later - but no symptoms

Postby roy » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:15 pm

Yes.
But only if your poop gets into their mouth.
Easily avoided.


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