PI-IBS symptoms

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healthys
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PI-IBS symptoms

Postby healthys » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:42 pm

Hello Everyone,

I had previously posted under PI_IBS or relapse topic ( 32F ). I have been off vanco for 2 weeks now ( took the 10 day course of 125 mg X 4 times a day). My BMs are not normal yet, I get anywhere between 1-3 BMs currently with first one in the morning that are formed and the subsequent ones loose ( sometimes floating ) with white foam/froth. I also get gurgling/rumbling sounds from my tummy and gas. { background- had a ruptured appendix and infection in intestines which resulted in an ileocecectomy instead of just appendectomy and use of antibiotics to control infection - cipro/flagyl/zosyn; got C diff 5-6 weeks after surgery and use of antibiotics)

I did re-test 4 days after being off of vanco for my naturopath and the test came negative and 9 days after being off of vanco for my infectious disease doctor and it came back positive. ID doc decided not to treat it until WD for 2-3 days.
So I am currently on probiotics ( Florastor, designs for health, ultimate flora, culturrelle, Bio K plus ), plant based yogurt and lactose free kefir. I am also on somewhat of a low Fodmap diet.

I wanted to check with everyone here what does the white foam/froth indicate? My ID said it is mucous from the irritated gut. Is that what typically people have seen when having PI-IBS after treatment? I also get undigested food items like tomatoes, okra seeds, broccoli etc come out at times.

Please help me if anyone can advice what other changes I can make to my diet or probiotics to get to somewhat more normal and formed stools. And whether I should continue to wait it out and not treat it any further with abx?

Appreciate all of your support!!!! This forum has been so much help during this time, I can barely even explain!

beth22
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby beth22 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:12 am

Did your doctor advise you to take that many probiotics? If I took that many, I 'd be having D for sure. Each person is different and some tolerate high doses better than others, but probiotics can also give a lot of gas and other GI issues. You might try and cut back a little if your doctor says it is okay and see if that helps you. Otherwise, it is just time. I was told to take a little Pepto Bismol with meals for a while and that helped me.

georgina
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby georgina » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:19 am

Keeping a low-fodmap diet is a good ideea but , as Beth said , you take ALOT of probiotic. Too much of that can also create discomfort . Better to stick to one brand.

roy
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby roy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:15 am

Florestor and kefir are the most common to get good reviews.
Kefir is probably better still if you make your own.
Almost all posters taking a large amount of "probiotics" mention some sort of reaction.
More is not better and also no pill probiotic is natural flora.
Taking too many probiotics has actualy been shown to delay the repopulation of the normal flora.

healthys
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby healthys » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:16 am

Thank you Roy, Beth and Georgina for getting back to me!! I will cut down the probiotics to just Florastor ( 2 in the morning and 2 at night). I guess I was afraid to stop taking all the probiotics. My PCP had asked me to stop taking probiotics actually.

I also reached out to a naturopath and she had me started on the following supplements protocol and have been taking those for 10 days now -

1. She asked me to take recommended dose of each probiotic I had
2.Nordic Naturals Fish Oil take 2,500mg a day
3. Allicidin 2/2x
4.Lipsomal Vitamin D/K 3 pumps/1x - hold under tongue for 30 seconds ( I am vitamin D deficient)
5. Glutathione 3 pumps/2x (she said it is an immune regulator)
6. Biocidin- 10 drops/3x a day (antimicrobial)
7. Gastro Thera 1 scoop/2x (gut healing support, it is L- Glutamine with some prebiotic)
8.Plant Enzyme Digestive Formula- 1-2 before a meal (to help digest food)

I don't know if anything has helped because I continue to get loose stools 1-2 times a day with that white froth. And in the morning I get formed stools which gives me hope everyday that maybe today is the day I am going to be better.

Please let me know :

1. What is this white foam/froth?
2. Has anyone taken these supplements and seen relief or repair their gut with these?
3. How long will I continue seeing undigested food like green beans, tomato skins etc?
4. How long did it take for you all to gain the weight lost?

Appreciate you all taking time from your busy schedules to respond! I am beyond thankful!
Last edited by healthys on Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NanciT
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby NanciT » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:31 am

That is a long list of supplements. Over the years we have seen posters use supplements but that is very individual. I would ask the doctor you are working with if they have treated CDIFF and Post IBS in the past. As we have seen on the site, some doctors have a great deal of experience with it, others do not.
Since you are POST Cdiff, the goal is to get through recovery and that can take time. I myself only take ONE Vsl#3 a day, if I took more I would have D everyday.
I stick with a bland diet and very slowly add foods. Some days my entire system is thrown off...last week I felt terrible after eating a small mount of avocado. That is off the list for now.

Do you have a GI who treated you? Maybe check in with them.

Take Care

NanciT

Ril
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby Ril » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:31 pm

Agree with the others and have to add...
I have had severe PI IBS and only take 1 Florastor in morning and 1 in evening and eat yogurt with lactaid supplement due to lactose intolerance. I have avoided all fibrous veggies and fruits and they caused me gas and d and that may be why you are seeing skins in your stool. They are not well digested and are irritating your gut. Try eliminating those that you are not digesting and make sure all veggies are thoroughly cooked and are not in the class of gas producing ( check on line...broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts etc)

I agree with NanciT on other diet suggestions. And I would check with your GI on supplements and their potential impact while in this tough phase.

roy
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby roy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:44 pm

Most c.diff is caused by overuse of antibiotic medication.

Dont assume that supplements are safe, they are still a form of medication and mostly unregulated and untested medication!
Time and nature is the main healer after treatment.

healthys
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby healthys » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:04 pm

Thank you all so much for replying!!!!

The GI MAP testing that she (naturopath) had me do showed negative c diff ( done 4 days after vanco course) and showed 192 ug/g calprotectin and some occult blood etc. I don't even know what all this means but she is recommending that I stay on the whole supplement protocol and add biociden pills as well along with the drops to keep the gut healthy. She is also recommending that I retest for C Diff/ Occult blood in 6 weeks. Otherwise the gut health was fine in the test, according to her.

Did anyone do these kinds of extensive stool tests and GI Maps etc? My husband is telling me to just listen to my PCP & ID.

That slowly the loose stools plus the foam etc will go away on its own.

Please let me know your thoughts!

roy
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby roy » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:21 pm

Your husband has given you the best advice.

NanciT
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby NanciT » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:23 pm

I have been in healthcare my entire life. It took me a while to find an ID that I felt knew CDIFF. Many physicians do not treat it often, that is a question everyone needs to ask when issues come up with treatments for either CDIFF or Post IBS.

I would follow my ID, they are specialist and have extra training for Infectious Diseases. I don't recall what type of physician has you on the supplements, but I would be cautious. The gut takes time to heal. I am reluctant to add anything in this healing process. I mentioned I take 1 VSL3 a day.

Have you checked in with your ID? Have you mentioned the list of supplements to them? That might be a good idea

Take Care

NanciT

healthys
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby healthys » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:46 pm

Thank you Roy! My husband appreciates your solidarity with him :)

Hi Nanci, the one who put me on supplemental protocol is a naturopath. She is a chiropracter I believe and has treated Joan Hardin who wrote the article "successful holistic treatment of CDiff without antibiotics" - " https://peggyfoundation.org/wp-content/ ... lo-res.pdf "

I had reached out to her and started on this protocol before I came across this wonderful support group!!

PS: I just had my 3rd BM of the day and it was watery D :( the previous one was loose + semi formed + foam and the 1st one in the day was formed.

Ril
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby Ril » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:57 pm

I am with your husband and Roy.
I too have been in medicine my entire life and believe in conventional medicine for treatable acute illness. Naturopath is fine as a supplement to conventional medicine when you are not in acute stages as you still are. You are mixing too many things. Stick with your ICD’s advice. I suffered with severe IBS as I said and my GI, who had expertise in c diff and IBS, treated me successfully through many IBS breakthroughs.

Just because someone writes a book doesn’t make them an expert! Check Amazon for how many books there are...with testimonials.

beth22
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby beth22 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:41 am

I agree with the others. I think less is better. I remember that I tried some supplements after my initial bout with c diff and it made things worse. I don't remember which ones though. If you tested for c diff 4 days after vanco, those results are probably not accurate. I'm not saying that you still have c diff, but usually you have to wait at least 10 days for a test to be accurate, and even ten days is short. The FODMAP diet is good and could help you, but try to see a GI or an ID. I'm not sure a naturopath is the right kind of doctor for this.

healthys
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Re: PI-IBS symptoms

Postby healthys » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:03 am

Thank you Ril and Beth! I appreciate you both responding!

Ril, how did your ID & GI treat your IBS?

My timeline so far :
Sept 4th- surgery for burst appendix converted to open ileocecectomy
Oct 13th- loose stools and diarrhea started
Oct 17th diagnosed C Diff positive via PCR test
Oct 19th started on 10 day course of Vanco ( oct 19th to Oct 28th)
Nov 2d tested for naturopath with extensive stool testing called GI Map- result came negative but some calprotectin etc high
Nov 7th tested for ID doctor ( so about 9 days after vanco, came positive )

Met with ID doc and he said not to treat it again yet. Just watch symptoms. So far have been having 1-3 stools a day. All the morning ones are formed and the subsequent ones are loose with foam etc.

Taking probiotics and supplements and watching symptoms everyday for now. Let us see! I will keep you all posted. I am hoping the loose stools are just from my colon being irritated from the infection & vanco. And not from my surgery or anything else.

Any advice or anymore insights are welcome. I have cut down on probiotics and cut down supplements as well.

Please pray for me! Thank you all so much!!


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