Cdiff without D? How did you know?

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jphifer
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Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby jphifer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:00 pm

Search is being wonky, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive. This is my first post but I've actually been stalking these boards since I had cdiff in 2011, and they have been a wealth of information.

So my question: With cdiff did you experience a gradual increase in stool frequency? And did you immediately have D or was that gradual as well?

My background: 37 y/o Female. After being hospitalized as a result of pancreatitis in 2011, I contracted Cdiff. My D was initially attributed to my liquid diet, and I was sent home. Within two days of my release I was diagnosed, readmitted to the hospital due to dehydration, prescribed flagyl, and sent home again. I was home for about a week, very bad experience with the flagyl, growing progressively weaker and was eventually readmitted for close to two weeks. This is partially because of how sick I was, and partially due to the fact it took TWO weeks to get coverage for my vancomycin prescription to go through. Meanwhile I was on IV vanco. I responded well to the first course of vanco and up to this point have had no recurrence.

Fast forward to this January. I got shingles, got the flu, fairly sure I have mono (my daughter does and I have her symptoms but dr wouldn't test me because of of my age which is... dumb). I also ended up with an upper respiratory infection that I went on a 10 day course of amoxicillin for. This was my first antibiotic use since having cdiff in 2011. About two weeks after ended that course of antibiotics, I was put on a 10 day course of Keflex/cephalexin. This was due to a staph infection on my chin that rapidly moved to my lymph nodes. I feel like my immune system can't catch a break since getting shingles! The doctor I saw for the staph infection understood my health history in regards to cdiff, but given the amount of time that has passed since my experience with it, combined with a very aggressive staph infection, we decided to risk it. About five days into the course of Keflex I started to experience mild digestive discomfort. I've had an increase in bowel movements (six yesterday) and my stools have gradually gotten looser but not yet full blown D. My stool smell is off, but I can't quite remember if it's THE smell (thank goodness I've mostly forgotten that smell!) The digestive discomfort has still been fairly mild, but it has gotten more frequent as well.

I'm patiently waiting things out, seeing which way my symptoms go, and trying not to get too inside of my head. I am at least comforted by the fact that I have good insurance now, will not allow myself to be messed around by drs in regards to meds, and am in much better health than I was even a month ago. Today is my last day of Keflex. If things don't get any worse I think I'll be fine, but if not I'm guessing Urgent Care gets to see me over the weekend and take some super fun stool samples.

roy
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby roy » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:20 pm

If you do ever get c.diff again you need to know that IV vanco is NOT EVER given as it has zero effect.
Any Dr that prescribes IV vanco for c.diff should be sacked!

jphifer
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby jphifer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:17 pm

Roy - It is certainly less effective, but not completely ineffective. At least in my personal experience. The majority of my course of vanco was through IV. My insurance ultimately wouldn't cover the pills and I had to wait for a grant. It was literally cheaper for me to stay in the hospital on the IV than to pay out of pocket for the meds. I was told at the time that the IV was less effective but it was the only option I was given. To my recollection I only had about 3 days left of pills to take once I left the hospital and the majority of my symptoms were already gone.

roy
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby roy » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:34 pm

Sorry to contradict you but IV vanco is 100% ineffective against c.diff.
No iffs, no buts, and not in your personal experiance!
Your lucky that your immune system beat off c.diff and did what it is supposed to do.
Your Dr could have killed you!
It looks like the Dr misread how it CAN be used.
The powder that is used in IV is mixed with water and given as an oral liquid medication.
It's used that way by thousands of people all over the world
Thankfully you got better but that was not because of the IV vanco. It was in spite of it!
That Dr should be reported and retrained before he kills someone, to be honest you have a duty to speak to his superiors and make sure this never happens to someone else.

amyc
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby amyc » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:51 pm

Wow. Wow. The IV vanco kept you from going septic, or maybe you were septic (meaning C diff was in your blood) but wow, yes, you should have been taking it orally as well. But you got better.

Anyway, my symptoms did start gradually like that, but then got much worse very quickly on the 4th or 5th day. I had issues that were enough to get me to go see my doctor on a Thursday, left a sample, but then felt pretty decent for the rest of the day. Woke up the next morning, a Friday, very sick. Called them, and my test had come back positive so they called in flagyl. I was really lucky, Bcause I had actually kinda considered cancelling my Thursday morning appointment.

The vanco powder can be mixed into a solution that you take orally, and it is much cheaper than the tablets, as Roy said. But it should be administered orally, not IV. Wow.

roy
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby roy » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:12 pm


jphifer
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby jphifer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:51 pm

Not arguing, just anecdotal experience. Just read a study that pretty much supports what you are saying. It's not statistically viable. But a small number (5) of the test subjects responded... worked out to something like 2.9%. Maybe the course of flagyl followed by the IV helped get everything in order. Either way sounds like I was very lucky. And I doubt my immune system was of much use. I was originally in the hospital due to severe pancreatitis (almost septic) when I caught the cdiff. By the time they had me on the IV Vanco I was incredibly ill.
Now I am armed with some pretty important knowledge and whole lot of gratitude that I'm still alive!

Anyhow, would still love input on the original question. Thanks!

roy
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby roy » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:18 pm

Ok
Anything is possible but D would normally come fairly fast.
Remember though that only around 1 in 5 cases of antibiotic D is caused by c.diff.
Biology lesson.
As what you eat and drink passes through to various parts of your system your gut absorbed nutrients.
When the very wet digested soup reaches your colon the water is extracted and the stool becomes solid, and around a third of the dry weight of that solid stool is dead or dying bacteria, most of the fluid supplied to your body is absorbed in the colon so regardless of the liquid consistency of food the stool should still be solid.
Babies only feed on liquid but pass solid stool.
C.diff toxin disrupts that process causing the colon to expell liquid instead of absorbing it and the stool is expelled as liquid.
Plenty of other things cause the same reaction but are usually self limiting.

amyc
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby amyc » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:23 pm

I answered your original question in the middle of my post. My symptoms came on gradually over 4 or 5 days and then hit me very hard when I woke up on, let's say day 6.

jphifer
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby jphifer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:35 pm

Amyc, I saw your reply and thank you very much! my point wasn't to say that no one had answered me, but rather to to make sure my question didn't get lost in the (startling!) information I was given about CDiff and the inadequacy of the treatment I was previously given.

Right now things haven't gotten better but haven't gotten worse. Just playing the wait and see game. And Roy's information was also very reassuring, regarding antibiotics and D. It seems my chances of recurrence are low, but I've had the worst dang luck the last few months.

amyc
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Re: Cdiff without D? How did you know?

Postby amyc » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:43 pm

With that history there is no way I would be waiting. That's just me, but absolutely no way would I wait for full blown symptoms. Nor would I worry about treating a mild case. I would just get my doctor working on prescribing the vanco and calling pharmacies to find which ones will make the oral liquid.

I am not trying to scare you, and many, many people get digestive upset with antibiotics that has nothing to do with C diff. It's been long enough that you might not be at any greater risk than every other person walking down the street. But I personally would not wait to request a test.


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