How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

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araelen
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How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby araelen » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:44 am

Hello. I'm the mother of a 1 yr 8 month old boy who has had complications with C-diff due to repeated antibiotics for his ear infections. Recently, he tested positive for Toxin. A on his NAAT, and (also GDH positive, of course.) His PED decided not to treat because he is not having anymore symptoms after finishing his antibiotic, Cefdinir. He HAS had some questionable poops this weekend, (one was more red, the next orange,) not sure if I'm allowed to post pics, but he is only going 1-2 times a day, exhibits no fevers, and seems overall just happy. (He also had had Tomatoes, strawberries, a bit of watermelon juice, and orange juice before these poos, so I'm hoping that's to why they were the color they were.)

So NOW... I've been experiencing symtoms the past 4-5 days. I thought maybe it was just my anxiety and over-thinking, but I had D 3x this morning already, and am feeling nauseous pretty much ALL DAY, every day, with little appetite for most of the day, and then starving at random times. I also feel the 'urge' to go a lot more, and now see what look like bubble discs on top of the toilet water when I go..? Pretty much the only time I feel a lot better is when I lie down. I don't even understand how I could have gotten it because I bleached every single thing and washed all our clothes, but it seems like I have it - So
1. I'm wondering how LONG will my son's poos be 'contagious' from the spores, even if he's asymptomatic...? I'm tired of having to treat his poo like it's toxic waste, and I'm still wearing gloves and changing him on top of paper towels and throwing everything directly outside in the trash bins every time after putting it all in plastic bags. I don't even have time to go to the doctor for myself because he's having tubes put in today, which he desperately needs, and that's my other concern - the said the only way he would need an antibiotic is if he has another infection while they do the surgery, but I'm going to say no unless he 100% needs it - but the thought of him taking ANOTHER antibiotic after a week of having symtoms terrifies me. I feel like this is an endless cycle.
2. Will he likely ALWAYS have issues with taking antibiotics now with 'relapses'..?
3. Could I somehow pass an 'active' infection back to him unintentionally, if I have it...?

Thanks, everyone :/

amyc
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Re: How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby amyc » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:22 pm

There is an article posted down in the media thread where researchers found a symptomatic carriers pose a risk to other hospital patients, so, yes, C diff is contagious and can be passed from people without symptoms. A positive toxin test with continuing symptoms would lead me to agree with your pediatrician's initial thought to treat him, but I would request liquid vanco instead of the flagyl tablets if you do that.

Your symptoms could be from stress, of course. It's always scary when your child is sick or having even a minor surgery like ear tube installation. I would have a family member watch your son for a few hours so you can get to a doctor so you can get tested, just to make sure. If you have C diff you guys can be vanco buddies. Not super fun, but a single course of treatment should put C diff in the rear view mirror for both of you.

If it's negative you won't have to worry about infecting him, and you can discuss his case with his pediatrician to see what you want to do.

amyc
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Re: How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby amyc » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:23 pm

Asymptomatic meaning without symptoms

beth22
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Re: How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby beth22 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:30 pm

If he is happy and not having symptoms, I would not treat. Even if you did, the vanco does not kill the spores and they would still be there when he had bms and when you changed him. I would however, go and have a test yourself, since you are having symptoms. If you test, also test for other pathogens via a stool culture.

georgina
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Re: How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby georgina » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:37 am

Qver 50% (same reports say up to 70%) of babies at that age will test positive for c.diff but their immature gut does not have the receptors that will react to the toxins. Even though he had D it can be antibitoic associated it doesn't necessarili mean active Cdiff . If he's fine now and D stopped i would hold back on treatment. However , if symptoms go full blown do ask for Vanco , Flagyl can be very harsh on your baby system.

araelen
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Re: How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby araelen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:53 pm

Thank you all so much for the responses! This is my second thread on the site, and I have learned some great info from my last thread - currently, my son is NOT having any symptoms, and seems totally happy!! (Even when I perceived that he might, they were mild - besides when he wasn't eating as well for a few days.) The only thing which still lingers is the 'sweet' smell from his stools, which is weird since he has no symptoms. He has also always been really sensitive about food textures, and tends to gag at things, at times..? (I have no clue if this is just normal kid behavior, or related to the bacteria - no idea.) He also FINALLY got his tubes in his poor ears yesterday, and I am feeling more relieved now, despite my challenges of thinking constantly / worrying about SPORES, as well as my own symptoms now. I always use gloves when changing him and clean efficiently, but I think I may have gotten it when smelling his diapers up close (in order to try and identify the smells for his doctor.) My symptoms are mild, and I'm honestly having more nausea than D...? I had D three times in just the morning the other day, and only once this morning... but it seems like mornings are always the worst...? And my stool smells just like his now! So, I'm getting tested to be sure, and waiting in the office. Our family usually has harder / more constipated stools, (literally everyone on my mom's side including me and my son, sorry if TMI) so it's really strange for me to have such persistent D for 6 days along with the crazy nausea. I'm just so thankful my son is okay.

I read that spores can survive on surfaces for 6 months. Can anyone confirm this? How the heck am I supposed to clean carpets/ couches/ mattresses...?! (I used to change him on the bed as a young baby, and came to learn that was a mistake after my first scare with this!!) I just flipped the mattress and am using clean bedsheets. I'm also unsure of how often I should bleach the floors. I have so many more questions, but they're very complex and it's frustrating that doctors have such limited knowledge about this!!! I'm lucky that the VANCO he was given inappropriately at 7 months old didn't effect his body's ability to fight off active infection. I wish I knew more about how this part specifically worked :/ every case is so individualistic.

One of my biggest concerns is future antibiotic use for my son. Has anyone had relapses, and if so, what triggered / caused them? How long apart were they? Thanks everyone and bless you all!!!

amyc
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Re: How long is Toxigenic C-diff contagious?

Postby amyc » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:27 pm

Spores remain active indefinitely. If you test positive you should discuss with your doctor and the pediatric GI and his pediatrician what they recommend. I am an outlier here, but my degrees in microbiology and biochem and time working in hospitals make me lean against not treating contagious diseases. If you have caught Cdiff from him that means others could as well if he goes to preschool or Mother's Day out or other places where somebody else would be changing his diapers. Please do read the article down in the media section where researchers proved that carriers can infect other people.

Some people can remain carriers after treatment, but most do not, at least as far as recent research shows. My GI is a research guy, and he confirmed that for me.

I am not a doctor, just have advanced degrees in microbiology. I am just stating my opinion. I was cured by a single course of vancomycin, and have taken Z-PAC and bactrim since then with no relapses, confirmed by negative PCR tests. I personally would not want to spend my child's toddler and preschool years agonizing over Cdiff and antibiotics, and I believe a course of vancomycin could cure him so you could move forward and have Cdiff be totally gone and behind you.

Again, just my opinion, and an unpopular one around here. I just voice it in the hopes that you will discuss the situation in depth with your doctors realizing that your situation is complicated and needs expert opinions from doctors who actually know you, your son, and your entire medical histories.


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