Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

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Wyok
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Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby Wyok » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:57 pm

Hi All,

It's been over two years since - with the help of a great doc - I successfully beat CDiff after taking clindamycin for a tooth infection. I am back to total normal for at least a year and about 8 months, and eat anything I want, but still take some probiotics every day, and often kefir.

To make a long story short - I've left the tooth as it was, sort of hollowed out, but seemed fine, after deciding not to get a tooth implant because they generally insist on taking antibiotics. However, the same tooth has now cracked (I probably should have figured that was going to happen) and now the infection has returned, albeit at a very low level. There isn't much tooth left now, and what's left is a little sensitive, and I can definitely see a pocket of what is probably infection on the gum near the root of the tooth.

So, my question is...I am going to the dentist tomorrow ( a new one! ) and I think the rest of the tooth will probably need to be pulled and the infection dealt with. I am hoping this can be done without antibiotics at all. I don't have a fever, or swollen glands. It's obviously a little swollen on the gum by the tooth, and you really can't tell by looking at me that anything is wrong. I know that most of the "go to" antibiotics are not for us former cdiffers, and I think it's foolish to take an antibiotic if it isn't life or death.

Have any of you had something like this and what did you do? I understand that Flagyl, sort of ironically, can be used for dental infections, but that it only targets anerobic bacteria (which, from what I understand, are the bacteria that most concerns dentist). I also understand that doxycycline can be used since it doesn't cause cdiff.

Would love to hear from you. And thanks to everyone, again, for helping me through my cdiff infection in the Fall of 2014. Could not have done it without you and without a very good doc.

NanciT
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby NanciT » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:24 pm

Hi

Sorry you are going through this, dental infections can be painful! I have had a few post CDIFF, including 1 extraction and 3 root canals. I had very few issues before CDIFF. I worked with my dentist, endodontics, and also oral surgeon. In my case, none of them felt antibiotics were necessary. I did use an antibacterial rinse called Perio gard.
Make sure you have a long conversation in reference to CDIFF and for you that is how it all started
Best of luck
NanciT

Wyok
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby Wyok » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi Nanci,
Thanks for your quick reply. All of that is good to know. My gut instinct is to stand firm and refuse any antibiotics. The protocol in the UK, by the way, for this sort of situation is no antibiotics unless there's a fever and swelling. They do exactly what your dentist(s) did: remove the tooth or do the root canal, drain the infection, and give some antibacterial wash. Thanks again. Hope you are doing well.

beth22
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby beth22 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:36 pm

My husband had it and used a rise called Peridex - probably similar to what Nancy mentioned. If you do need antibiotics, doxycycline is low on the offending list.

Wyok
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby Wyok » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:21 am

Thanks Beth for the response. I'm also hearing that penicillin is low on the list too. I haven't taken penicillin since I was a child, but I never had a problem with it. Still think best option is no antibiotics, and if this new dentist won't play ball, I will find one who will.

beth22
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby beth22 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:41 am

Yes, no antibiotics is best, but penicillin, unless it is Pen VK is not as safe as doxy. Look on the list that is posted in the CDI section and you can share it with your dentist if the need arises. My husband did not need anything except the mouth rinse and he had an infected part of the gum. His dentist cleaned it out when he pulled the tooth and then he used the Peridex.

ResearchGrandma
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby ResearchGrandma » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:58 pm

Last Feb I had what initially appeared to be a gum infection, but turned out to be a infected bone cyst due to a cracked root. I initially took 2 weeks of doxycycline (after a quick call from the dentist's office to my wonderful GI doctor, who actually called me back while I was still at the dentist). Then what was supposed to be a procedure by a periodontist to investigate the area turned into an extraction and a scraping out of the infected bone. The periodontist would normally have prescribed either clindamycin or amoxicillin after the surgery, but instead I ended up with flagyl. Over the summer I spoke to an oral surgeon who was willing to do a dental implant without any preoperative prophylactic antibiotics, but according to research the rate of dental implant failure is twice as high without preoperative antibiotics. Supposedly the implant (even though it is sterile) picks up bacteria as it travels through the mouth - and the coating of bacteria prevents proper implantation, and can even result in infection, which would require a full course of antibiotics. Since I did not want to take either clindamycin (for obvious reasons) or amoxicillin (allergic) I ended up taking one dose of levaquin before the procedure in October. I had few days of upset GI, then everything was OK until the month of Jan, where for whatever reasons things were not OK and I ended up getting a C. diff test (negative). After Jan my GI returned back to where it had been (not like pre C. diff, but acceptable). I have to go back to the oral surgeon soon so he can check the implant and see whether it has bonded properly to my bone.

Wyok
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby Wyok » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:35 am

Beth22 - thanks for that update on penicillin.

ResearchGrandma - quite an interesting story. I am glad everything has basically worked out for you.

I certainly had a frustrating day. I went to a new dentist, who did listen patiently and sympathetically to my story. The swelling and infection in the tooth/gum is actually starting to go down because I have been treating it with hydrogen peroxide and salt washes. He doesn't do extractions. That's an oral surgeon. (Does anyone remember the days when dentists did everything right in their office except for really, really specialized stuff??). He called around to a few of the oral surgeons he uses and NOT ONE would do the extraction unless I took antibiotics in advance. So, I am going to continue to treat the infection myself. I am now using oregano oil (acts just like an antibiotic, kills everything in sight; I used it once for a parasite infection and it worked like a charm). If I can get the swelling and infection to basically disappear, I can go to one of these oral surgeons and get the tooth pulled. I don't have to fill any scripts that might be given to me for antibiotics after the tooth is extracted. But I am also going to keep looking for a dentist/oral surgeon who will do the extraction without freaking out about antibiotics. I think I will try a few of the holistic dentists we have here. I live in NYC, and I can't believe how little these dentists know about the harm that antibiotics can cause. It's disheartening.

beth22
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby beth22 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:55 am

That's really strange that they won't do the extraction without your taking antibiotics. Years ago, my daughter had wisdom teeth pulled that were impacted in the bone and she did not need antibiotics.

roy
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby roy » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:38 am

If the infections bad it can stop the local anastetic working.
Something to do with puss being alkaline.
If your prescribed antibiotics in advance it's up to you if you take them.
Sounds like your dentist needs to cut into your gum to get at the broken tooth.
If you can clear any infection naturally before extraction it's a bonus but even UK dentist would want that infection gone before digging for a broken root.

Wyok
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby Wyok » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:33 pm

Beth: I have since found out that there are two schools of thought on this. There are dentists who simply want to reduce the amount of bacteria before they extract because they fear it will spread the infection, and there are those who don't feel giving antibiotics is effective because they don't really get to the place where the infection is coming from. I haven't found one of the second kind yet.

Roy: I have heard that about the anesthesia. I think I recall reading somewhere on this forum that in the UK they do, in fact, drain the infection, extract the tooth, and then give some kind of anti-microbial, but not an antibiotic, unless it's really a bad situation.

It's interesting to report that, since I started using the oil of oregano on Friday afternoon, the visible infection and swelling has gone down by 60% to 70%. I am going to use the next two days to call around to various dentists - mostly ones who claim to be holistic - and to continue to use the oregano oil.

Thanks to all of you, sincerely.

ResearchGrandma
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby ResearchGrandma » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:39 pm

My sister uses a supplement with antimicrobial activity - berberine. She has taken it both internally and also mixed the powder with cooled, boiled water and used it topically. (She says she cured an infected nose sore by snuffling the solution). If you do need to take antibiotics, my GI recommended either doxycycline or flagyl, since they are less likely to cause C. diff.

Wyok
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby Wyok » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:54 pm

ResearchGrandma: Thanks for the additional info. The consensus seems to be doxycycline or flagyl if antibiotics are needed. Still haven't found an oral surgeon who will listen to me. But I have had great success in reducing the visible infection with the oregano oil and colloidal silver. It's about 80% better today. I'm hoping to get it all the way down, so that at least they won't send me off to take antibiotics before the extraction. It still amazes me how few doctors - and now, especially dentists - have any idea about the consequences of antibiotics. Someone really needs to approach the official dentists' association and demand that they have some kind of protocol set up to both decrease the use of antibiotics when possible, and to treat patients who are allergic to antibiotics or have had cdiff in a different way. It appears that only oral surgeons now extract teeth; even so called holistic dentists won't do it. I think it's all about "specialization" which means that it will cost us, the consumers, more for this "special" "surgeon." Aargh.

MKW
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby MKW » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:51 pm

Wyok, just wanted to say I COMPLETELY agree with your statement about dentists. I was perfectly healthy, and developed C Diff after taking Clindamycin from my dentist ( I am penicillin allergic). I went in for a cleaning and they told me my gum was inflamed around a tooth, possibly due to getting something stuck between my teeth. My dentist handed me a Clindamycin prescription and told me to take Immodium if it caused diarrhea. I could have treated it with a mouth rinse probably. (And if I'd treated the diarrhea with Immodium it could have killed me). She was ignorant about C Difficile. Totally ignorant. I have spent 7 months sick and on and off meds, and just had to have an FMT. It seems the current prescribing practices of dentists are not in line with the current efforts in the medical community to not unnecessarily prescribe antibiotics. And they do not have deal with the consequences of their poor decisions with prescribing. We can't sue them, and we have to go to medical doctors to treat the consequences. Maybe that's part of the problem.

roy
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Re: Tooth/gum infection...again - could use your help!

Postby roy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:30 pm

Dentist chairs must be rife with germs.
Think about it.
Chair with 2 plastic arms that every single patient grips onto for dear life.
Lots of those patients have been on antibiotics.
At least 20 patients a day so law of averages means at least one a day will carry asymptomatic c.diff.
Chair "might" be wiped down between patients but not with bleach and defiantly not left with wet bleach for the 20 min kill time.


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