MOVED FROM ANOTHER FORUM - Waldog

[Bobbie]

Waldog

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: Normal BMs Return...?? (not for the easy queasy) & Vanco
(Started a new thread because I did not want to feel like we were hijacking HennyPennys thread.)

This is my reply to Sheila from HP's thread "normal after meds":

I suspected before all of this that what I had was actually IBS, a common mistake of assumption I would guess for most people.

I too seem to be in the same category as far as symptoms go. Where I feel my situation is a bit unusal, and warrants more investigation, is the big question mark as to why I have not had "normal" BMs since about 15 years ago.

What is the "norm" for me (last 15 years) is what some have described as the peanut butter type BM. And by the way, this is NOT an exaggeration. It is true that I cannot recall one single movement that would be a "textbook" BM.

My reason for pointing this out is not to be rude or disgusting as I it seems some here seem to feel.

My reason is simply that there HAS TO BE some sort of explaination as to WHY and then by asking questions and answering them candidly without being degrading is how we can all benefit from this knowledge.

Ok, I'm getting of subject here, but I'm trying to explain why I feel the way I do, as well as my reasoning behind any theories I present for myself or others in my humble opinion.

While some may not care, and may not like it, I am sorry, if it helps me and others to understand it better, then so be it.

If I had started out with "textbook normal" BMs, and then had these symptoms I would definatley feel differently about my theory.

But since I have had what seems to me mild to moderate C. Diff symptoms a significant portion of my life, it is virtually impossible for me to discount that known fact about my body.

It troubles me to see people and doctors who discount what could be a potentially viable clue to a treatment or maybe even cure right in front of them just because of the stigma that people have about speaking of bathroom activities.

We cannot reach any hard conclusions in my opinion without taking this data into account. Communication is a two way street.

I can understand the concept of PI-IBS, but I am curious as to how that does occur. From what I recall about IBS, it seems a mystery as to what is the actual cause, and the treatments for it are limited.

I am not saying that I don't believe it happens, I do in fact believe it will occur after a bout of C. Diff. I want to understand it more is all I am really saying. Maybe we never will.

I guess what I am saying is that, I really have very little faith that even if I do become "cured" of C. Diff, that I will retrun to "textbook normal" based on my history.

I imagine I will return to "my normal" which is a far cry from "textbook normal".

However, I would love to be "textbook normal", I may even feel like a human again.

And as someone else stated, this is something I never thought I would be here talking about, but again, in my opinion we all need to talk about it.

I also don't feel that we should be forced to censor our conversations about it because it leads to beating around the bush. We need to be frank and feel that we can discuss it candidly with our doctors, even if it is in laymans terms.

Now as for Vanco, I have not even been "my normal" on Vanco. It has been pretty much D minus cramping. Maybe my stomach is sensitive to Vanco. Maybe the Vanco is evacuating the C. Diff from my system and this is a good thing.

I don't know, but it is pretty irritating not knowing either way. The fact that I have to look forward to PI-IBS (after C. Diff) is really not much different from what I have felt like most of my life. As I stated in the begining of this post, that is pretty much what I assumed I had until I became very ill and went to the doctor.

Sorry if this disgusted anyone, but it is the way I feel, and the only way I know how to describe it.

Some may even be asking why do I care, what does it matter as long as you feel better, etc.

This may be true, feeling better is a major improvment not matter what the "end results" are.

I guess I am looking for a deeper explaination than most, probably a curse of being an engineer.
_________________
-Waldog

[Sheila1]

waldog,

Sorry for delay in response, I only just now read this (I don't choose to read TMI very often). I haven't figured out what I might have said that seemed to upset you? I apologize if something did.

All I meant in my other answer was related to your statement:

I thought I read on here somewhere that even people who are "cured" never return to normal.

it's not true that even people who are cured "never return to normal."

I was explaining that with some people (and only sometimes!) IBS occurs after long bouts of cdiff, and PI-IBS can occur. The recent postings from Christina on PI-IBS show 7-31% (the article also contradicts what I'd previously read saying it usually disappears within 6 to 24 mos.!....I need to find that article again and post it).

I surely wasn't making light of your condition - I well remember your history! And I applaud you for your tenacity in pursuing the cause of the problems - if I were you, I would do the same.

Hope this clears up my intention.

I don't think 'disgusting' is a problem, nor is censorship, as long as it's relegated to the Too Much Information category. When posted in the appropriate place, it's a courtesy to other readers so they don't have to read about cdiff's less appetizing symptoms while eating breakfast or supper (which I often do when perusing the site) - everyone can wait until they feel up to it - or not read it at all.

This is especially true for the moderators because they have to read every post.

[Christina]

Sorry guys I'm not up for any link wars. Seems to me we should all be working together as we are all in the same boat. As with everything about c-diff there is no one answer and every experts opinion will contradict anothers. Believe me, I've pretty much heard it all. In the end the time frame of PI-IBS doesn't really matter as long as you feel better in the long run and c-diff is out of the picture. Unfortunately, we need to adjust to our new selves and deal with it. Life goes on. For us who have had long term recurrent c-diff it seems logical that PI-IBS will last longer and possibly be worse than in others who have had short boughts of c-diff.
I was just told by my GI doc that because of my severity of my infection and also because I had prior stomach issues before c-diff including lactose intolerance that I most likely will never recover from PI-IBS. It will be something that I will almost always have to live with. Again, life goes on. I am enrolled in college,raising my family,exercising,taking my many meds. and enjoying life. After having c-diff and relapsing 12 times and having poop pumped into your stomach and everything else, you realize that living with PI-IBS is okey dokey!

Please do not take any of this as offensive as it most certainly is not meant to be read that way. That being said I will not post any more links for fear of possibly contradicting others information.

Sheila, I have nothing but respect for the links that you post and for you as well. So sorry I have contradicted you or your article. I truly apologize.
[/b]

[Sheila1]

no no no Christina! That wasn't what I meant at all! And definitely not a link war. I'm glad you posted the link from the expert. I'm not sure where I read my information (hadn't had time to try to find it again) and felt what you posted was probably more accurate as it's definitely more technical/medical based. Nope, I was glad you posted it and was interested in finding out if what I read was much older information (easily could have been) - or investigate if maybe it was like CDIff with 10 different theories from 10 different doctors.... Alot of inaccurate info. exists out there (as you well know!) (and I definitely wouldn't have posted the link unless it was the "latest greatest study" with new findings that maybe no one had seen yet - but in no way to even think 'link war.')

Grief...the written word leaves alot to be desired sometimes. Sorry, Christina. Keep posting! ...maybe I need to quit, this is #2 now. aargh.

And I fully agree - life goes on regardless and we deal with each day as best we can.

[pam2738]

My two cents -------------- please don't anyone stop posting links or whatever other information may be found. We all need as much as we can get our hands on. With cdiff & with our doctors being sometmes less than helpful & less than knowledgeable, we need to be proactive in our own treatment & we need every bit of information that we can to do that.

So please, POST LINKS!

Pam

[Christina]

I apologize Waldog for cutting into your thread. I will make this short and this will be my last post in this thread as this is the TMI section. Everyone's contribution is useful. I don't think anyone should stop posting as sharing knowledge is what life is about. I do think that words need to sometimes be thought out more carefully as it is hard at times to determine ones tone and intentions when reading words.

No one on this board knows it all just as no Dr. out there knows it all. By reading and pulling links and sharing our knowledge through our experience we all have something to gain.

Christina

[Waldog]

Sorry if I upset anyone by this post. It was more of a rant on my part, and was not directed towards anyone here.

I am just frustrated in general by this whole C. Diff thing.

I am also sorry that people misunderstood me to think that I believe that PI-IBS is in question.

That is not the case at all. I merely wonder how that occurs as what I read about IBS seems to be one big mystery. (PLEASE, understand just based on what I read about IBS BEFORE coming to this site.)

The one write up that I read (I think it was on wikipedia) said that IBS is hard to diagnose because there really are no visible issues with the GI tract, and the medicines used to control it are limited and vary greatly in results (based on what I read and recall). In other words, it sounds like if you have IBS, there is not much that can be done, except just deal with it.

That is all I meant. And that just seems off the wall to me, BECAUSE in this day and age with all the technology and medicine, we can't effectively treat or manage a condition, ANY condition along those lines, is just hard for me to comprehend.

Especially for someone like me who is an engineer, and technology type person.

So please don't think I am discounting that it happens. I am just picking thing apart for myself, and this was not directed at anyone.

And no one is cutting into my thread. I think my post was misunderstood and it is my fault. It appears I might have came across at one particuar person, and that is just not the case.

I am just frustrated as I said before about having C. Diff. I am sorry that if I have not come to accept it yet, or whatever and people are offended that I seem this way. I am trying to just put it all together in my own mind so that I can make peace with it myself.

Don't stop posting links, I am no expert on this by far. That is why I am here, to share my experience, and to hear others as well as to share information.

Again, I am very sorry if someone thought I was flaming them in particular. I was just trying to be more clear and not beat around the bush regarding my symptoms as I feel these thing are important details that may hold clues for the better of all of our well being.

I just felt the need to justify being candid. That is all really. I felt that might have been called into question a bit where I felt it should not be, an that is causing confusion in understanding others exact symptoms.

Sorry for the confusion. I suppose I am the one who should stop posting.

[pam2738]

Waldog,

NO, do not stop posting. You've been frustrated as we all are & being of logical training with a logical approach to problems (I was married to a biochemist!), it is doubly frustrating to you to be dealing with something that seems more like trying to nail jello to a tree! But don't stop posting. I think you are probably putting words to many of our frustrations.

I have cats & am pretty well educated in feline health. One of my cats has had several years of the feline version of IBS. In cats it's IBD - irritable bowel disease. It is viirtually undiagnosable short of a biopsy which means invasive surgery. It's usually diagnosed when every other possibility has been ruled out. Symptoms are the same as with people. Treatment is usually a change in diet, staying away from all grains & soy. Steroids are generally used to decrease inflammation. On this regimen, my old cat's IBD went into remission over a year ago.

My guess is that PI-IBS is linked to cdiff in that the bowel is still highly sensitive & easily inflammed even tho cdiff MAY be gone. So there continue to be flareups. I just finished reading Dr James Scala's book, Eating Right for a Bad Gut, which is primarily for IBD sufferers.

Keep on asking questions. Everyone learns from them.

Pam

[Bobbie]

Waldog & everyone,
I moved Waldog's post to TMI because of the explicit details, have done so in the past with other posters, & will do so again.

C. diff. is indeed a "yucky" disease -- one reason why we are relegated to the "last of the line" in favor of other diseases like MRSA -- not so "yucky" & easier to diagnose. We created TMI so new posters & others (including reporters, docs., & researchers) won't read the most popular forums like Gen. Dis. & Questions & think, "Oh, ick." One research doc. complimented us on a "professional site."

If you want to ask explicit questions & describe personal details, post them in TMI.

My case is probably close to Christina's. I explored many avenues for help with C. diff., & after all the agony (& money & time & stress) I developed IBS as a side efffect (as well as acid reflux/hiatal hernia) & various other issues. I have bad days & good days, but don't we all? I'll take other problems over C. diff. any day!

We are a team here, guys & gals. Remember, few understand what we have gone through. They "just don't get it." We don't need internal bickering , & anyone who stops posting "in a snit" is hurting themselves and everyone else.

Christina & Sheila, you are two of our most valuable posters, contribute lots of great information, & answer posts with empathy & compassion. We don't want to lose you.

Everyone has a right to his/her say. Just put it in the correct forum & keep posting. Also, different studies come to different conclusions. Makes a difference on who conducts them (vested interest?), # of people involved, if it is a blind study, etc. Even two docs. in the same field rarely have the same opinion. Multiply this by many when it comes to studies.

And for God's sake, Lighten up! People who don't feel well are often grumpy & super sensitive. Let's be the exception. I'd break into a chorus of People Who Need People, but that would be overkill -- exactly like what has happened to all of us with C. diff.

End of sermon.

Going to ask Lauren how to lock this thread. PM each other over indivudual difficulties or post in Free Form Discussion, but let's try to keep these problems "off site."